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Scott242 - Regarding your post on Dec 17th - I will be interested in your progress as I have similar digestion issue as you. It is interesting you had confirmed you developed bad gut bacteria overgrowth. I see many writing about adding probiotics and fecal transplants but maybe it is important to get rid of the bad bacteria first to improve thesuccess rate of the good bacteria long-term. The reason I mention this is I noticed significant improvement with my digestion and energy level after taking antibiotics on two separate occasions. My bowel movements were firmer and there was an increase in volume. My stool is typically loose to medium, lighter in color, lower in diameter (the few times this can be observed) and low in volume. I wonder if the possible overgrowth of bad bacteria reduces our absorption of vitamin and mineral. When taking the antibiotics, I noticed more I had more energy. Normally, when I wake in the mornings, I have low energy. But when taking the antibiotics, I woke with a sense of wanting to get up and get things done. I felt there was simply more energy in my muscles too. After this experience, I was hopeful there may eventually be a method to improve our well-being. Can you postthe amounts of the supplements you are taking? Have you continued to improve?
I see many reporting head pressure. I had this symptom for the first few years after taking Accuntane. I think it was usually after a dinner. Head pressure is one of the few symptoms that seems to have subsided over the years. Im not sure the exact reason. One thing I did around that period in my life is I removed margarine from my diet. I dont know if there is any relation. I do think I have issues with digesting certain fats.
In case anyone is interested contrary to many posters here, I actually have low cholesterol (or at least I did the last time I check which was a few years ago).
Francisco reported feeling better after fasting. I tried a detox/fast years ago and do remember feeling relief from brain fog and aches. Maybe the presence of bad bacteria and/or their byproducts causes much of our problems. When we reduce the foods the bad bacteria eat, we reduce them and their byproducts and therefore reduce some symptoms. Maybe it would be best to first eliminate the bad bacteria, replace with good bacteria and then focus on supporting the good bacteria long-term through proper diet. I may also attempt a gluten/sugar free diet as a test. Im sure it would be better to lower the bad bacteria with diet than antibiotics but Im not sure if is as quick or as effective. The worry of course is killing good bacteria while on the antibiotic and whether the benefits of killing the bad bacteria will exceed issues caused by potentially killing good bacteria. I guess is where a more targeted approach to killing the specific bad bacteria would be key.
Calcified - I also get a form of post Accutane scalp breakouts. I never had this problem before Accutane. It seems Accutane changed the way my body reacts to certain foods. I think eating hemp hearts helps a little. It may be worth trying. They are very high in Manganese and Magnesium and high in phosphorus, zinc, iron and thiamine. Perhaps it is one or more of these vitamin and minerals that helps. I would be interested to know if it helps you. I am also now using a dandruff shampoo and I think it helps a little too.
3 hours ago, User2 said:Calcified - I also get a form of post Accutane scalp breakouts. I never had this problem before Accutane. It seems Accutane changed the way my body reacts to certain foods. I think eating hemp hearts helps a little. It may be worth trying. They are very high in Manganese and Magnesium and high in phosphorus, zinc, iron and thiamine. Perhaps it is one or more of these vitamin and minerals that helps. I would be interested to know if it helps you. I am also now using a dandruff shampoo and I think it helps a little too.
I do find some vitamins help with scalp, I do find less breakouts with b12, but sometimes a vitamin works initially then it starts coming back again, like shampoos they start off helping them somehow it gets worse. Have you tried no shampoo, that actually helps too. I have had swabs taken and the results are zero. No bacteria, fungi etc. I do understand when you say you feel better on antibiotics, maybe it's the anti inflammatory properties.
On 1/15/2019 at 5:45 PM, guitarman01 said:Again, remember this.
In addition, isotretinoin normalizes [58,59] exaggerated TLR-2- mediated responses in acne patients [60,61]. Since TLR2 plays many positive physiological roles, deleterious consequences of its blockade are expected. TLR2 regulates the production of neurotrophic factors in intestinal smooth muscle cells and promotes survival of enteric neurons and glial cells [62,63]. TLR2 controls mucosal renewal. Cells kinetics of villous columnar epithelial cells are modulated by TLR2 and controls the proliferation of indigenous bacteria [64-66]. TLR2 enables local tolerance via Bacteroides fragilis. It discriminates between pathogens and symbiotic bacterial molecules in a process that engenders commensal beneficial colonization [67,68]. TLR2 controls indigenous bacteria proliferation in the upper alimentary tract. Lack of TLR-2 contribute to the settlement of undesirable bacteria, especially Gram-positive, or candida [69,66,70,4].
On 1/18/2019 at 1:50 AM, Calcified said:In your opinion do you think tlr2 stays suppressed? Like years after treatment. Everything I have read gives me the impression that high levels of tlr2 wouldn't be ideal. Any studies showing results further than 6 months after treatment.
Another way to term it would be tlr2 activation.
Maybe immune tolerance, immune stimulation, immune activation, immune suppression= immune regulation.
Understand long term effects on this could manifest itself in numerous ways even years down the line.
This is seperate from blaming all life problems,the normal aging process, orgenetics on Accutane.
Unfortunately thoughthe line will become more blurred as people get older.
Some will ask themselves the question, What if?
Im sure alot of you have, What if I had never taken Accutane?
@Calcifiedanother example. Ive already been diagnosed with what I underlined.
Toll-Like Receptor 2 as a Regulator of Oral Tolerance in the Gastrointestinal Tract
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/mi/2014/606383/
Food allergy, other adverse immune responses to foods, inflammatory bowel disease, and eosinophilic esophagitis have become increasingly common in the last 30 years. It has been proposed in the hygiene hypothesis that dysregulated immune responses to environmental microbial stimuli may modify the balance between tolerance and sensitization in some patients. Of the pattern recognition receptors that respond to microbial signals, toll-like receptors (TLRs) represent the most investigated group. The relationship between allergy and TLR activation is currently at the frontier of immunology research. Although TLR2 is abundant in the mucosal environment, little is known about the complex relationship between bystander TLR2 activation by the commensal microflora and the processing of oral antigens. This review focuses on recent advances in our understanding of the relationship between TLR2 and oral tolerance, with an emphasis on regulatory T cells, eosinophils, B cells, IgA, intestinal regulation, and commensal microbes.
The most fundamental question remains unanswered: does TLR2 activation support or disrupt human oral tolerance to food antigens?
So..
AIP diet, limiting too much oil
Digestive enzymes (must include HCI, Lipase and Ox Bile)
Probiotic - 100 billion
Iodine 5% formula
B-complex
Milk Thistle
Water fasting - Intermittent fasting - Then 48hrs once a week, working up to 72hrs perhaps once a fortnight and from there 5+ day fasts to guarantee Ketosis. Eventually 30 days when possible.
Adding to what I just posted.
Effects of Isotretinoin Treatment on Epigenetic Programming in T Cells
Retinoids are essential nutrients involved in the maturation of the immune system. The majority of in vitro and in vivo studies provided evidence that retinoid treatment exhibits anti-inflammatory properties and is effective acne therapy. However, there is a controversial discussion about a causal relationship between isotretinoin treatment and the onset of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). Some patients have claimed that they developed acute intestinal inflammation during isotretinoin treatment or had an onset of IBD weeks or even years after cessation of the medication. We have previously shown that isotretinoin treatment has no adverse effects in two mouse models of inflammatory bowel disease. Here we investigated the influence of isotretinoin treatment on genetic imprinting in two T cells subsets as a potential mediator of long-term effects of isotretinoin treatment on the immune system. Methods Balb/c mice were treated with isotretinoin (30 mg/kg bodyweight) or vehicle orally for 2 weeks and kept for further 4 weeks to study potential direct and long-term effects. Naive T cells and regulatory T cells were isolated directly after the treatment period and at the end of the study by magnetic cell sorting. After isolation of genomic DNA, microRNA and mRNA, samples were sequenced with the Illumina technique to study changes in methylation patterns, microRNA and mRNA expression. For predicting target genes of determined microRNAs the software Target Scan and Traget Scan Custom were used. For identification of pathways significantly affected by isotretinoin treatment the software Meta Core was applied. Results Analysis of epigenetic modifications in naive and regulatory T cells revealed potential long-term effects in both T cells subsets. In regulatory T cells mainly the methylation pattern was altered in T cells isolated four weeks after cessation of treatment. In naive T cells on the other hand predominantly microRNA expression was altered in T cells isolated after four weeks without treatment. Pathway analysis by Meta Core revealed that pathways of immune responses, concerning antigen presentation and T helper cell differentiation were affected. Further functional analysis of affected pathways is currently under investigation.
Conclusions Preliminary results identified changes in methylation pattern and microRNA expression in naive and regulatory T cells which might mediate potential long-term effects after isotretinoin treatment, yet differences between the different T cell subsets were far more pronounced than differences induced by isotretinoin treatment
And as of 3 weeks ago, they still dont quite know how Accutane works,
Medication for severe acne alters skin microbiome
Study raises potential for development of microbiome-based acne treatments
byJulia Evangelou StraitDecember 21, 2018
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/medication-for-severe-acne-alters-skin-microbiome/
5 hours ago, guitarman01 said:Adding to what I just posted.
Effects of Isotretinoin Treatment on Epigenetic Programming in T Cells
Retinoids are essential nutrients involved in the maturation of the immune system. The majority of in vitro and in vivo studies provided evidence that retinoid treatment exhibits anti-inflammatory properties and is effective acne therapy. However, there is a controversial discussion about a causal relationship between isotretinoin treatment and the onset of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). Some patients have claimed that they developed acute intestinal inflammation during isotretinoin treatment or had an onset of IBD weeks or even years after cessation of the medication.We have previously shown that isotretinoin treatment has no adverse effects in two mouse models of inflammatory bowel disease. Here we investigated the influence of isotretinoin treatment on genetic imprinting in two T cells subsets as a potential mediator of long-term effects of isotretinoin treatment on the immune system. Methods Balb/c mice were treated with isotretinoin (30 mg/kg bodyweight) or vehicle orally for 2 weeks and kept for further 4 weeks to study potential direct and long-term effects. Naive T cells and regulatory T cells were isolated directly after the treatment period and at the end of the study by magnetic cell sorting. After isolation of genomic DNA, microRNA and mRNA, samples were sequenced with the Illumina technique to study changes in methylation patterns, microRNA and mRNA expression. For predicting target genes of determined microRNAs the software Target Scan and Traget Scan Custom were used. For identification of pathways significantly affected by isotretinoin treatment the software Meta Core was applied. Results Analysis of epigenetic modifications in naive and regulatory T cells revealed potential long-term effects in both T cells subsets. In regulatory T cells mainly the methylation pattern was altered in T cells isolated four weeks after cessation of treatment. In naive T cells on the other hand predominantly microRNA expression was altered in T cells isolated after four weeks without treatment. Pathway analysis by Meta Core revealed that pathways of immune responses, concerning antigen presentation and T helper cell differentiation were affected. Further functional analysis of affected pathways is currently under investigation.
Conclusions Preliminary results identified changes in methylation pattern and microRNA expression in naive and regulatory T cells which might mediate potential long-term effects after isotretinoin treatment, yet differences between the different T cell subsets were far more pronounced than differences induced by isotretinoin treatment
And as of 3 weeks ago, they still dont quite know how Accutane works,
Medication for severe acne alters skin microbiome
Study raises potential for development of microbiome-based acne treatments
byJulia Evangelou StraitDecember 21, 2018
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/medication-for-severe-acne-alters-skin-microbiome/
I wonder if people get ibd either straight away(inital flarup) or years after stopping Tane, wouldn't be surprised.
15 hours ago, whackutane said:So..
AIP diet, limiting too much oil
Digestive enzymes (must include HCI, Lipase and Ox Bile)
Probiotic - 100 billion
Iodine 5% formula
B-complex
Milk Thistle
Water fasting - Intermittent fasting - Then 48hrs once a week, working up to 72hrs perhaps once a fortnight and from there 5+ day fasts to guarantee Ketosis. Eventually 30 days when possible.
Remind us again what the Iodine does??
I think it™s safe to say most have tested ok for thyroid function so what exactly should one expect from supplementing Iodine?
Its possible I™ve used the wrong brand in the past....
Then again I just may not need any.....
Some info here would be much appreciated
7 hours ago, TrueJustice said:Remind us again what the Iodine does??
I think its safe to say most have tested ok for thyroid function so whatexactly should one expect from supplementing Iodine?
Its possible Ive used the wrong brand in the past....
Then again I just may not need any.....
Some info here would be much appreciated
I had mine tested and it was in perfect range.
1 hour ago, jellyy said:do most of you have hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism after accutane? i think iodine is suppose to help withhypothyroidism but i think i havehyperthyroidism after accuatne, my symptom is more body hair growth. so im afraid that iodine will lead to more break outs.
Mine was perfect range.
Yes I suppose I was just collatinga bunch of previous cured posts together.
How does post accutane syndrome differ from fat malabsorption from a congested liver?
Dryness of skin
Memory issues
concentration
quite a few link up ?
Fasting puts the liver into a state of ketosis and frees congestion?
On 1/21/2019 at 7:22 PM, jellyy said:do most of you have hyperthyroidism or hypothyroidism after accutane? i think iodine is suppose to help withhypothyroidism but i think i havehyperthyroidism after accuatne, my symptom is more body hair growth. so im afraid that iodine will lead to more break outs.
I have slow thyroid with body hair, have to starve to loose weight.
Am curious if others are like this?
hey guys,
I just wanted to ask how do you stay alive and not commit suicide? why even live?
ive lost everything to this drug... my career which barely started, my mental clarity, my emotions, my sex life and the ability to do sports.
I know that my life will never be the same again, so why bother?
im really considering to end my life. I just cant seem to pick myself back up and live.
all i do is suffer. AD dont help, I was in a mental facility as well..
[Edited video out]
On 1/22/2019 at 3:23 AM, Francisco..Blanquez said:I have problems about thyroids, I'm a bit over the range, not having iodine but....maybe I should.
It may be something usual because I remember that when I was having roacutane..my doctor used to test my thyroids.
Have you considered the iodine protocol?
11 hours ago, Calcified said:At first I thought vitamin d supps was helping but now I think stomach problems are worse, anyone had same reaction?
Vitamin D helps me with the mood but some other post accutane symptoms get worse under vitamin D. In my case it is worsening dry skin, dry eyes and dandruff. I have stopped taking vitamin d supplements. I have not experienced any stomach problems thou.
2 hours ago, Roland1968 said:
Vitamin D helps me with the mood but some other post accutane symptoms get worse under vitamin D. In my case it is worsening dry skin, dry eyes and dandruff. I have stopped taking vitamin d supplements. I have not experienced any stomach problems thou.
14 hours ago, Calcified said:At first I thought vitamin d supps was helping but now I think stomach problems are worse, anyone had same reaction?
Vitamin A is fat soluble so it's no coincidence that many of us have trouble digesting fats. So another fat soluble vitamin will probably make things worse.
Does anyone agree??
I'm also now interested in doing a thyroid and cortisol test. Someone told me that if you are having trouble digesting fats it's will affect your thyroid and cortisol.
15 hours ago, GeRalt said:hey guys,
I just wanted to ask how do you stay alive and not commit suicide? why even live?
ive lost everything to this drug... my career which barely started, my mental clarity, my emotions, my sex life and the ability to do sports.
I know that my life will never be the same again, so why bother?
im really considering to end my life. I just cant seem to pick myself back up and live.
all i do is suffer. AD dont help, I was in a mental facility as well..
Yo mahn
I believe we will all heal. I'm don't plan on giving up and neither should you.
16 hours ago, GeRalt said:hey guys,
I just wanted to ask how do you stay alive and not commit suicide? why even live?
ive lost everything to this drug... my career which barely started, my mental clarity, my emotions, my sex life and the ability to do sports.
I know that my life will never be the same again, so why bother?
im really considering to end my life. I just cant seem to pick myself back up and live.
all i do is suffer. AD dont help, I was in a mental facility as well..
Some of us have figured out that a gluten and sugar free diet helps a lot. Being extric with the diet you can feel like cured. In the same way that there are thing that can damage you (like roacutane) there are others that can help and improve your health and your mood. Cod liver oil is also a good thing which can help a lot.
I seek and keep the hope for my peace to come back
19 hours ago, GeRalt said:hey guys,
I just wanted to ask how do you stay alive and not commit suicide? why even live?
ive lost everything to this drug... my career which barely started, my mental clarity, my emotions, my sex life and the ability to do sports.
I know that my life will never be the same again, so why bother?
im really considering to end my life. I just cant seem to pick myself back up and live.
all i do is suffer. AD dont help, I was in a mental facility as well..
You will pick yourself back up and live. It has been 5 years for me and I am doing ok. I was suicidal too. Just give it some time.
Its hard to know for me if we tolerate or not all thefat soluble vitamins or is itjust A we struggle with....
Outside of tane, Vit E is supposed to counteract Vit A - Ive read that in books.
Outside of all the experiments we do Id like to know from an expert how we tolerate A, D, E, and K with evidence to backthings up - no guess work.
And if there is a problem, where does it reside?? More to do with Bile & Liveror is it our screwed up gut health that cant properly deal with these fats....or both??