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Thanks for a great thread Munsoned.How much of an improvement do you think you've seen?
What is the led you spoke of on Page 3 with lamarr? Ive never heard of this before...
And what cream did you use. Iniitially it was Copper Peptide, but then did you change to Vit c Serum?
I've been needling scars on my chest for 2 years now, on and off.They've all responded brilliantly bar one massive indented scar which was as a result of my senile useless millionaire derm injecting far too much steroids leaving me with approx 2cm diameter hole in the centre of my chest.
I only started needling my ffacelast week . I've a dermaroller ordered but i might just use my box of diabetic 31 guage needles instead. They last ages and i've a hundred left
Thanks for your help and good luck!
John
John, over all the improvement has been good. Some scars have improved to the point they are virtually gone. Others have improved less but still are far better then when I began. And others have been stubborn all the way through. But one of them is a acne scar/burn combined and the reason it has not responded I believe is from the burn. Another scar that has been very stubborn I have begun to needle aggressively and will see how it responds. Derma rolling did nothing to help this particular scar. Other then that most all other scars have improved. Like I said, some more then others.
I use vitamin c serum. That is it. My skin cannot handle topicals so I keep it very simple. Go to this site to read up on LED ( http://heelspurs.com/led.html ) they are said to help improve the skins ability to heal after being damaged from rolling/needling ect..at the cell level.
Rolling is good to hit large area's of skin. I still roll but less frequently. I think a good roll every 4/5 months is good for me. But individual needling is better for deep scars I feel. You need to really get in there and break up the scar at more depth and precision then a roller allows. So you can make alot of progress with those diabetic needles as you did on your chest. Best of luck with your treatments.
Hi Munsoned,
Can you describe the types of scars that showed the most improvement and the type that doesn't respond at all, and everything else in between? Are the more shallow scars showed the most improvement or the deeper ones?
Why do you think that it? Is it because some scars are tethered? Or perhaps the cheeks respond better than the forehead or temples?
How do you sterilize your needles?
How long did it take for your rolled-skin to blend in with the rest of the face? You said redness lasts for about 4 days for you, how long did it take for your skin color to completely normalize?
Are you a Fitz skin type 4 or lower?
Are your pitted scars accompanied with discoloration? After some leveling from rolling, what turns out of the color?
Sorry for bombarding you with all these Qs.
I hope I can roll soon but I have school, so I'm wondering how long downtime is.
Lastly, congrat on your improvement. It's very inspiring, please keep us posted, very rarely do we see someone who's diligent about updating their progress, especially after such a long time.
Hi Munsoned,Can you describe the types of scars that showed the most improvement and the type that doesn't respond at all, and everything else in between? Are the more shallow scars showed the most improvement or the deeper ones?
IHS, most of my scarring is similiar. Mostly smaller but deep ice picks or clustered scarred pores. I do have a handful of larger ice pick scars but the majority of my scars are clusters of smaller but deep ice picks and scarred pores. Some scars just don't respond well for one reason or another while some do. I have some deeper scars that respond well, and some shallower scars that did not. And vice versa. So it seems to be a very individual type of thing rather then a specific type of scar responding one way and another type responding another way.
Why do you think that it? Is it because some scars are tethered? Or perhaps the cheeks respond better than the forehead or temples?
I honestly don't know? I have scars right next to each other and one responds better then the one next to it. So where they are does not seem to be the issue either. Again, it just seems to be a very individual scar type of deal.
How do you sterilize your needles?
I use isopropyl alcohol to sterilize my roller. about 30m to 1h post roll. Then I let it air dry and put it back in it's case. The individual needles get thrown out after they are used so no need to sterilize them.
How long did it take for your rolled-skin to blend in with the rest of the face? You said redness lasts for about 4 days for you, how long did it take for your skin color to completely normalize?
It usually takes about a week at the most for the skin color to completely normalize. But after 4 days it is usually much better then that first few. And then it realy comes around fast after about the 4th day..At least in my experience that is how it has gone.
Are you a Fitz skin type 4 or lower?
My skin is dark. I am half irish and half italian and I got the italian in me much stronger. Ever seen how guys look who landscape all summer. That is basicly how my skin gets.
Are your pitted scars accompanied with discoloration? After some leveling from rolling, what turns out of the color?
I did have discoloration and a very un even skin tone.. But it is far better then it used to be. I feel both a combination of rolling and using a good zinc oxide sunblock and getting some sun each summer has greatly improved my over all skin tone.
Sorry for bombarding you with all these Qs.
It is no trouble..I know what it is like to deal with scars and the leasr I can do is try and help if I can.
I hope I can roll soon but I have school, so I'm wondering how long downtime is.
The down time is not that bad..And if you do individual needling you can do a few scars on a weekend and it is barely noticeable..Then the next weekend do some more. And maybe every time you get a long weekend or some time off from school do an aggressive full roll.
Lastly, congrat on your improvement. It's very inspiring, please keep us posted, very rarely do we see someone who's diligent about updating their progress, especially after such a long time.
Thank you..Many members on here inspired me to start this up. By continuing to update my log ect..I am just paying it forward.
Hey M,
Do you think you got better result from needling each individual scar or dermarolling?
How many times have you rolled?
Do you see a drastic different now compared to when you first started rolling?
You said some scars have completely filled in...it gives me hope!
I think everyone would die for your before/after pic!
keep us updated please
Hey M,Do you think you got better result from needling each individual scar or dermarolling?
How many times have you rolled?
Do you see a drastic different now compared to when you first started rolling?
You said some scars have completely filled in...it gives me hope!
I think everyone would die for your before/after pic!
keep us updated please
IHS, For me the individual needling does the real work on the deeper scars. But Rolling helps my skin over all on a larger scale. Scars come in all different shapes, sizes. depths so both treatments are going to help in varying degrees depending on any number of factors. I don't know how many times I have rolled exactly to be honest..I have done full face rolls, and also smaller area's of my face rolls. I have rolled many times. I would say at most my most treated areas of my face have been done any where from 15-20 times. Overall my skin is greatly improved now compared to when I started. Again, some scars are more stubborn then others and have not responded as favorably. But overall pretty much all my scars have responded to some extent. I have no before pics.
Hey M,Do you think you got better result from needling each individual scar or dermarolling?
How many times have you rolled?
Do you see a drastic different now compared to when you first started rolling?
You said some scars have completely filled in...it gives me hope!
I think everyone would die for your before/after pic!
keep us updated please
IHS, For me the individual needling does the real work on the deeper scars. But Rolling helps my skin over all on a larger scale. Scars come in all different shapes, sizes. depths so both treatments are going to help in varying degrees depending on any number of factors. I don't know how many times I have rolled exactly to be honest..I have done full face rolls, and also smaller area's of my face rolls. I have rolled many times. I would say at most my most treated areas of my face have been done any where from 15-20 times. Overall my skin is greatly improved now compared to when I started. Again, some scars are more stubborn then others and have not responded as favorably. But overall pretty much all my scars have responded to some extent. I have no before pics.
Improvement is always a plus.
Wow 15-20 times....
Are you happy with the result now or will you continue rolling? Perhaps if you wait longer between each rolling session and let collagen do its work, you might see better results.
It's always good to hear from you
Hey M,Do you think you got better result from needling each individual scar or dermarolling?
How many times have you rolled?
Do you see a drastic different now compared to when you first started rolling?
You said some scars have completely filled in...it gives me hope!
I think everyone would die for your before/after pic!
keep us updated please
IHS, For me the individual needling does the real work on the deeper scars. But Rolling helps my skin over all on a larger scale. Scars come in all different shapes, sizes. depths so both treatments are going to help in varying degrees depending on any number of factors. I don't know how many times I have rolled exactly to be honest..I have done full face rolls, and also smaller area's of my face rolls. I have rolled many times. I would say at most my most treated areas of my face have been done any where from 15-20 times. Overall my skin is greatly improved now compared to when I started. Again, some scars are more stubborn then others and have not responded as favorably. But overall pretty much all my scars have responded to some extent. I have no before pics.
Improvement is always a plus.
Wow 15-20 times....
Are you happy with the result now or will you continue rolling? Perhaps if you wait longer between each rolling session and let collagen do its work, you might see better results.
It's always good to hear from you
Yeah it is, you have to take what you can get. Our options are limited so if you find something that works you have found something worth while in my opinion. I have not treated my entire face 15-20 times. I have rolled smaller areas of my face at times and the most treated areas of my face have been treated roughly 15-20 times. I have tried different approaches. Both longer down time and rolling more frequently. At this point longer down time between rolls is working better. I am happy with the results but I will continue on. I want to improve my most stubborn remaining scars. If I can do that I will realy have accomplished something. And at this point the treatments are very easy. Just a needling here and there and a roll maybe once every 4/5 months. So I am down the the last batch of scars. What I consider the worst of them.
Hey M,Do you think you got better result from needling each individual scar or dermarolling?
How many times have you rolled?
Do you see a drastic different now compared to when you first started rolling?
You said some scars have completely filled in...it gives me hope!
I think everyone would die for your before/after pic!
keep us updated please
IHS, For me the individual needling does the real work on the deeper scars. But Rolling helps my skin over all on a larger scale. Scars come in all different shapes, sizes. depths so both treatments are going to help in varying degrees depending on any number of factors. I don't know how many times I have rolled exactly to be honest..I have done full face rolls, and also smaller area's of my face rolls. I have rolled many times. I would say at most my most treated areas of my face have been done any where from 15-20 times. Overall my skin is greatly improved now compared to when I started. Again, some scars are more stubborn then others and have not responded as favorably. But overall pretty much all my scars have responded to some extent. I have no before pics.
Improvement is always a plus.
Wow 15-20 times....
Are you happy with the result now or will you continue rolling? Perhaps if you wait longer between each rolling session and let collagen do its work, you might see better results.
It's always good to hear from you
Yeah it is, you have to take what you can get. Our options are limited so if you find something that works you have found something worth while in my opinion. I have not treated my entire face 15-20 times. I have rolled smaller areas of my face at times and the most treated areas of my face have been treated roughly 15-20 times. I have tried different approaches. Both longer down time and rolling more frequently. At this point longer down time between rolls is working better. I am happy with the results but I will continue on. I want to improve my most stubborn remaining scars. If I can do that I will realy have accomplished something. And at this point the treatments are very easy. Just a needling here and there and a roll maybe once every 4/5 months. So I am down the the last batch of scars. What I consider the worst of them.
M,
I can't tell you how much hope you've given me hearing your progress from Dermarolling. I'm happy you're happy with the result and I hope start my treatment as soon as I can afford a week of downtime.
We should die scar-less
p.s. i would die for some pic of improvement, but i completely understand if you want some anonymity keep us updated!
HelloI've been checking into the different types of derma-rollers. There are many kinds of rollers out there.
I was wanting to find the best one I could. I'm not sure but it would seem that the more needles on the roller head would get better results. Maybe having two different kinds of rollers would be a nice luxury, like narrow one and a wide one? Plus, I read somewhere on this board that some of the brands had lose heads, bent needles, etc.
Maybe when people post their results with rolling they might also mention the derma-roller they used.
Anyway here's the best one I found so far:
i know many people just purchase the cheap ones and discard them after each use (less risk of infection?). Or you can get a better quality one that last longer but it needs to be sterilize before/after each use.
Hey M,good to hear you're comming along nicely.
thumbs up!!!!!
Thanks man! You know how it goes, it keeps happening. Just very slowly. I am set to roll again soon so I am going to drop a little update.
I just purchased another 2mm roller and will needle/roll again beginning in the next week or 2. I never treat my entire face anymore. I do my treatments in smaller sections. Usually takes me a couple weeks to get all the sections done. This will be my first roll in about 3 months or more. I don't even remember exactly when the last one was. I have been slow to do this next treatment because the last treatment has continued to produce improvements month after month. This will be my only needle/roll until at earliest the spring.
It is starting to get down to the nitty gritty now. This next treatment will probably put the finishing touches on several scars. I'll update when I roll.
Hi Munsoned, woaw ur first post of this log was in 2008, two years later u just have a small patch of scars left, this is so great for you, i am really happy for you!!!
I always knew persiverence is a must with acne scarring and u are proof that if you stick with it religiously that it can make all the difference!!
Thanks so much for sharing your information with us, and I wish you all the best 
Hey M,good to hear you're comming along nicely.
thumbs up!!!!!
Thanks man! You know how it goes, it keeps happening. Just very slowly. I am set to roll again soon so I am going to drop a little update.
I just purchased another 2mm roller and will needle/roll again beginning in the next week or 2. I never treat my entire face anymore. I do my treatments in smaller sections. Usually takes me a couple weeks to get all the sections done. This will be my first roll in about 3 months or more. I don't even remember exactly when the last one was. I have been slow to do this next treatment because the last treatment has continued to produce improvements month after month. This will be my only needle/roll until at earliest the spring.
It is starting to get down to the nitty gritty now. This next treatment will probably put the finishing touches on several scars. I'll update when I roll.
This is my first "reply" on acne.org. I actually joined because of this thread.
First, I echo Nilou's sentiments re: munsoned. Thanks for sharing! It's rare that someone follows up on a promise. You promised you would document your progress and you have. Very much appreciated.
Second, I've just started using a 1.5mm derma roller, on rolling/depressed acne scars, in my temples/upper cheeks. I have some questions/observations which may be of interest and which anyone can answer...
1. Is it really necessary to draw blood?! I've seen videos of "doctors" drawing blood, but also read manufacturer/distributor suggestions that no blood should appear. You should simply get a pinkish hue. The suggestion being that more frequent rolling, without drawing blood, yields the same results over time.
2. Frequency of use? Perhaps that depends on how deep one goes, but I've seen estimates ranging from rolling 5 times a week, to rolling once every few months. I wish there was a more precise guideline.
3. Post-roll cream? I've seen many suggestions. Some distributors suggest a cream with Vit C and E to stimulate collagen production. Others suggest a placenta cream (placenta being vitamin rich). Has anyone tried placenta cream with success?
4. What do you all make of the quality of the derma rollers? As you know, the prices vary considerably... from $10 out of China, up to hundreds of dollars. I wonder aloud if the cheap derma rollers are just as effective. I can't afford to buy and discard derma rollers like I would disposable razors.
5. I'm just soaking my derma roller in rubbing alcohol for 5-10 mins post-roll. How are you folks disinfecting yours? And how often are you discarding them?
Cheers, Paul
Hi Munsoned, woaw ur first post of this log was in 2008, two years later u just have a small patch of scars left, this is so great for you, i am really happy for you!!!I always knew persiverence is a must with acne scarring and u are proof that if you stick with it religiously that it can make all the difference!!
Thanks so much for sharing your information with us, and I wish you all the best 😀
Thank you Nilou! I appreciate that. Yup, you have to just keep working at it. I am not aware of any quick fixes for scars so you have to persevere.
This is my first "reply" on acne.org. I actually joined because of this thread.First, I echo Nilou's sentiments re: munsoned. Thanks for sharing! It's rare that someone follows up on a promise. You promised you would document your progress and you have. Very much appreciated.
Thank you a.om..I would not say I was going to do something if I did not plan on doing it.
Second, I've just started using a 1.5mm derma roller, on rolling/depressed acne scars, in my temples/upper cheeks. I have some questions/observations which may be of interest and which anyone can answer...
1. Is it really necessary to draw blood?! I've seen videos of "doctors" drawing blood, but also read manufacturer/distributor suggestions that no blood should appear. You should simply get a pinkish hue. The suggestion being that more frequent rolling, without drawing blood, yields the same results over time.
I have heard the same thing a.om..I have even spoke to people who say they used the less aggressive approach and had very good improvements. Personally I have used a more aggressive approach to rupture blood vessels and cells to initiate that cascade of events which in sum is:
Phase I: inflammation, which starts immediately
after the injury
Phase II: proliferation (tissue formation), which
starts after about 5 days and lasts about 8 weeks
Phase III: tissue remodeling, from 8 weeks to
about 1 year
Check the dermarolling support thread at the top of the scar treatment home page. There are some in depth studies ect..you can read through to maybe help you determine what you feel is best. From my own research I determined the more aggressive approach was best.
2. Frequency of use? Perhaps that depends on how deep one goes, but I've seen estimates ranging from rolling 5 times a week, to rolling once every few months. I wish there was a more precise guideline.
I find when I roll/needle I see the best results by being patient and giving my self several months..
3. Post-roll cream? I've seen many suggestions. Some distributors suggest a cream with Vit C and E to stimulate collagen production. Others suggest a placenta cream (placenta being vitamin rich). Has anyone tried placenta cream with success?
I have used C serum. Others use terproline or copper peptides. C serum is easy on my skin so I stick with that.
4. What do you all make of the quality of the derma rollers? As you know, the prices vary considerably... from $10 out of China, up to hundreds of dollars. I wonder aloud if the cheap derma rollers are just as effective. I can't afford to buy and discard derma rollers like I would disposable razors.
I personally buy the some what cheaper models. However I get them here in the states not out of country. But certainly the higher quality rollers probably deliver the treatment a bit better. But like you, due to costs I stick with the cheaper models.
5. I'm just soaking my derma roller in rubbing alcohol for 5-10 mins post-roll. How are you folks disinfecting yours? And how often are you discarding them?
I basicly do the same thing. I let it soak for about 20/30m post roll then let it airdry and put it back in its case. I use my rollers as longas I possibly can. They eventually wear down andwhen that starts to happen I discard it and purchase another.
Cheers, Paul
Update time
I recently needled and rolled..Needled each scar individually first followed by rolling. I had to treat a small area on the left side of my face and roughly 75% of my right. I also purchased some 50% MG TCA. I am going to spot treat a few scars in the next week..Scars that are seemingly resistant to needling/rolling. I am interested to see if the TCA can get these several scars moving along. Once I do that I probably won't be doing anything til spring other then using my led and giving my skin the time necessary to do what it has to do. Hopefully I have some more good news to report. I am sure I'll be around once and a while in the meantime. And any changes that occur I'll keep my log updated.
Thanks for your reply munsoned!
Your approach is probably better. I just don't know if I can bring myself to be that aggressive. So I may stick with the gentler approach.
I agree that it takes time. I've read a lot of comments, on various sites, where people want permanent results overnight. Drastic results require drastic procedures... like dermabrasion. I'd rather get results safely, over time.
I was VERY skeptical about derma rollers, but after one gentle rolling session the inflamation has mostly leveled my scars. I know it's not permanent. My scars will be visible again in a few days. But hopefully with continued rolling, the cream, and oral vit C + collagen supplements, I can get my skin leveled naturally.
Like munsoned, I'm in this for the long run. I literally just started rolling, yet I accept it will be years before I get permanent results. If I have to roll periodically for life, I will. Anything to avoid surgery.
If anyone is considering dermabrasion, please do your research. I'm not saying it's bad. For some with extreme scarring it may be required. But know that there can be complications. Many have posted their bad experiences online.
I will visit the threads you mentioned munsoned and check back periodically.
Wishing everyone success!!
Did my first TCA spot treatment today on just 1 scar. My other scars I am considering using tca on were needled about 6 weeks ago and I am giving them more time to rebuild. If they don't show some progress after the last treatments then I will tca them as well. But for now I just treated what I consider my most stubborn scar. If it has improved it has been extremely minor improvements. I have 50% medical grade tca. And I am familiar with the treatment both pre and post and treated that 1 scar. It frosted up nicely and now it is just a matter of waiting to see how it turns out in the months to come and I will hope for the best.
Hey M, I have these like little tiny divots on the sides of my neck. They are definitely not ice pics b/c they are not deep and they are not box cars either, just tiny little holes that I could stretch out somewhat easily. Do you think these will respond well to rolling?
Joe, what are they from?It is possible rolling could help. I don't know how aggressive you can go on the side of your neck? Maybe aggressive enough though. Realy there is only one way to find out and that is by giving it a shot.