sorry to keep adding,,,

if you start supplementing with GLA/06 you need to make sure your diet is not high in refined carbs or saturated fats/dairy. This can cause the 06s to become inflammatory.

Freedom,

do you subscribe the theory of Lamar that high doses of vitamin A in supplements causes scarring or weakened/thin skin as well as the 3 and 6 imbalance or improper GLA?

Also I don't see how anti-inflammatory foods or supplement in themselves are bad, I take black currant seed oil now, which is great for acne and gives GLA, yet it is promoted an anti-inflammatory I believe. I have seen benefits. It is good for repairing tissue damage. I still think overall reducing inflammation in the body is good, along with proper GLA.

What amount of omega 6 would you recommend Freedom?

Another piece of info-I too have taken accutane in the past.

 

And I get odd hives and rashes from fish oil and 03 sources.

 

Perhaps accutane disrupts the 06 conversion to GLA more permanently than insulin resistance.

 

To Quirky- if you are unbalanced in 06/GLA you will go through some adjustment stages. When GLA is low hormones are a bit messed up.

I cant even take a teaspoon of chi seed without it causing dry and thin skin (dry lips) -my clues to my 03/06 ratio. Green veggies have considerable amount of 03 (when compared to 06). I also think that when 03 is high calcium is lowered. Taking calcium has helped prevent scarring during times of high 03/fish oil. I now require less calcium than when my 03 was high.

My father reacts the same way when he takes too much fish oil now, and he had severe acne that left some deep pock marks in his twenties (wasn't taking fish oil though). Fish oil is the only thing that gives him zits now. Neither of us have taken Accutane, yet we both react badly to fish oils. Perhaps the tendency of poor 06 conversion is genetic?

I am going to try borage and calcium supplementation for a bit and see if my skin toughens up at all. Thank you for sharing what has worked for you!

I just wanted to add something. Several days ago I mentioned on one of the threads about omega-6 and omega-3 competing in the body.

You guys seem to be very concerned about the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3.

If you follow the average american diet, which almost all of us do, then you will never get a proportion of omega-3 being greater than omega-6.

Please don't try to increase your omgega-6, instead decrease your omega-6, and increase the omega-3. I promise you, if you are eating an average american diet, your omega-6 out proportions your omega-3 intake.

If you guys want, I will make a seperate thread talking about omega-6, omega-3, and inflamation.

Again, taking fish oil or flaxseed, will NOT cause your omega-3 to out-proportion your omega-6 if you eat an average AMERICAN diet.

thanks

I just wanted to add something. Several days ago I mentioned on one of the threads about omega-6 and omega-3 competing in the body.

 

You guys seem to be very concerned about the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3.

 

If you follow the average american diet, which almost all of us do, then you will never get a proportion of omega-3 being greater than omega-6.

 

Please don't try to increase your omgega-6, instead decrease your omega-6, and increase the omega-3. I promise you, if you are eating an average american diet, your omega-6 out proportions your omega-3 intake.

 

If you guys want, I will make a seperate thread talking about omega-6, omega-3, and inflamation.

 

Again, taking fish oil or flaxseed, will NOT cause your omega-3 to out-proportion your omega-6 if you eat an average AMERICAN diet.

 

thanks

My diet is far from the SAD; I eat fresh veggies, brown rice, quinoa, salmon, turkey, hemp protein, a tiny bit of olive oil, some almonds and fruit, and that is pretty much all. I think for people with a non-standard diet, taking omega 3 could cause problems and taking omega 6 GLA could help. I actually started scarring more since my diet and omega ratio "improved," though it could be a coincidence. I agree that people who eat the SAD should probably avoid omega-6 supplementation, though.

Anti-inflammatory foods really shouldn't hurt you, imo, even GLA taken in supplement form gets converted to a substance called DGLA that fights inflammation.. sited: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/gamma-l...enic-000305.htm

So it is anti-inflammatory. According to articles GLA can affect skin in a good way, it is said to help eczema and allergies. There may be a problem with some people's conversion of lineolic acids to GLA. Or it could be something else in the fish oil pills causing a bad reaction. Many are said to have heavy metals or mercury, not all supplements are produced the same. It is something to think about if you are allergic to fish oil.

Additional reading: http://www.myomancy.com/2007/03/fish_oil_side_e

Fish oil does seem to have side effects when taken in large doses. There is mention of cod liver oil in the article too. The comments from users lead one to believe fish oil can cause a wide array of problems in certain people.

I just wanted to add something. Several days ago I mentioned on one of the threads about omega-6 and omega-3 competing in the body.

 

You guys seem to be very concerned about the ratio of omega-6 to omega-3.

 

If you follow the average american diet, which almost all of us do, then you will never get a proportion of omega-3 being greater than omega-6.

 

Please don't try to increase your omgega-6, instead decrease your omega-6, and increase the omega-3. I promise you, if you are eating an average american diet, your omega-6 out proportions your omega-3 intake.

 

If you guys want, I will make a seperate thread talking about omega-6, omega-3, and inflamation.

 

Again, taking fish oil or flaxseed, will NOT cause your omega-3 to out-proportion your omega-6 if you eat an average AMERICAN diet.

 

thanks

I for one do not follow the average american diet, which could be another reason the fish oil/O3 caused me to scar. My diet is mostly veggies, fruits, chicken and beef.

It should also be noted that in addition to high 03 causing deficiency in GLA high 06 can also cause a deficiency in GLA.! This is why I recommend an oil with GLA. I tried to reverse my tendency to scar with 06 oils alone and it did not work for me at all- I just got more breakouts, inflammation and hair loss. Now I can tolerate more and more 06 as time goes by. Before the fish oil supplementation I had no problems consuming even large amounts of 06 like salad dressing made with sunflower oil.

What amount of omega 6 would you recommend Freedom?

I recommend starting out taking 1300mg/day of primrose oil or borage for a few days to see how your skin reacts, then working up to 10% of your calories coming from primrose/borage.

For me 06 oils without GLA were not able to reverse my scarring. You may be different. I mentioned before I am insulin resistant.

When the skin is deficient in 06 then it becomes sensitive or irritated when exposed to oleic acid-which is a fatty acid found in all oils and fats. Working up slowly decreases the reaction to oleic as the 06 builds up. When I first started with even one capsule of primrose I had to go through some adjustments due to the oleic reactions. Oleic reactions include flaky skin, rashes, increased blackhead formation, dandruff and hair loss.

Be sure to include a calcium supplement.

Anti-inflammatory foods really shouldn't hurt you, imo, even GLA taken in supplement form gets converted to a substance called DGLA that fights inflammation.. sited: http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/gamma-l...enic-000305.htm

 

So it is anti-inflammatory. According to articles GLA can affect skin in a good way, it is said to help eczema and allergies. There may be a problem with some people's conversion of lineolic acids to GLA. Or it could be something else in the fish oil pills causing a bad reaction. Many are said to have heavy metals or mercury, not all supplements are produced the same. It is something to think about if you are allergic to fish oil.

 

 

Additional reading: http://www.myomancy.com/2007/03/fish_oil_side_e

 

Fish oil does seem to have side effects when taken in large doses. There is mention of cod liver oil in the article too. The comments from users lead one to believe fish oil can cause a wide array of problems in certain people.

I think the problem with many natural and or herbal anti-inflammatories is that they can inhibit the enzyme that converts 06 to GLA. We need the active form of GLA to inhibit scarring. There are many reasons besides inflammation or the lack of inflammation for scarring.

We need active fatty acids to lay down adequate calcium in the bones and skin- calcium deficiency in the skin can cause scarring just as it can cause weak and breakable bones. Fatty acids are only part of the great orchestra involved in skin integrity.

What amount of omega 6 would you recommend Freedom?

 

I recommend starting out taking 1300mg/day of primrose oil or borage for a few days to see how your skin reacts, then working up to 10% of your calories coming from primrose/borage.

 

For me 06 oils without GLA were not able to reverse my scarring. You may be different. I mentioned before I am insulin resistant.

When the skin is deficient in 06 then it becomes sensitive or irritated when exposed to oleic acid-which is a fatty acid found in all oils and fats. Working up slowly decreases the reaction to oleic as the 06 builds up. When I first started with even one capsule of primrose I had to go through some adjustments due to the oleic reactions. Oleic reactions include flaky skin, rashes, increased blackhead formation, dandruff and hair loss.

 

Be sure to include a calcium supplement.

 

Freedom - I have all the symptoms of omega 6 defieicny nbut i have never taken omega 3 supplements nor do i eat fish ... what could be the cause of my omega 6 deficiency (if thats what i have) i also have Seb Derm like you mentioned you had ... did you manage to get rid of this problem ?

What amount of omega 6 would you recommend Freedom?

 

I recommend starting out taking 1300mg/day of primrose oil or borage for a few days to see how your skin reacts, then working up to 10% of your calories coming from primrose/borage.

 

For me 06 oils without GLA were not able to reverse my scarring. You may be different. I mentioned before I am insulin resistant.

When the skin is deficient in 06 then it becomes sensitive or irritated when exposed to oleic acid-which is a fatty acid found in all oils and fats. Working up slowly decreases the reaction to oleic as the 06 builds up. When I first started with even one capsule of primrose I had to go through some adjustments due to the oleic reactions. Oleic reactions include flaky skin, rashes, increased blackhead formation, dandruff and hair loss.

 

Be sure to include a calcium supplement.

 

 

Freedom - I have all the symptoms of omega 6 defieicny nbut i have never taken omega 3 supplements nor do i eat fish ... what could be the cause of my omega 6 deficiency (if thats what i have) i also have Seb Derm like you mentioned you had ... did you manage to get rid of this problem ?

 

Its quite possible to have a GLA deficiency and not have a deficiency in either 06 or 03. My seb derm went away a few months after GLA /primrose supplementation. My seb derm flared in the begining after starting supplementation, this is a reaction to unopposed oleic acid, (oleic acid unopposed is irritating to the skin and actually feeds fungus and bacteria!) Flares will subside after GLA builds up, I have found no way around this except to apply primrose topically combined with other natural antifungals like tea trea, myrrh, frankinsense etc.

What amount of omega 6 would you recommend Freedom?

 

I recommend starting out taking 1300mg/day of primrose oil or borage for a few days to see how your skin reacts, then working up to 10% of your calories coming from primrose/borage.

 

For me 06 oils without GLA were not able to reverse my scarring. You may be different. I mentioned before I am insulin resistant.

When the skin is deficient in 06 then it becomes sensitive or irritated when exposed to oleic acid-which is a fatty acid found in all oils and fats. Working up slowly decreases the reaction to oleic as the 06 builds up. When I first started with even one capsule of primrose I had to go through some adjustments due to the oleic reactions. Oleic reactions include flaky skin, rashes, increased blackhead formation, dandruff and hair loss.

 

Be sure to include a calcium supplement.

 

 

Freedom - I have all the symptoms of omega 6 defieicny nbut i have never taken omega 3 supplements nor do i eat fish ... what could be the cause of my omega 6 deficiency (if thats what i have) i also have Seb Derm like you mentioned you had ... did you manage to get rid of this problem ?

 

Sorry didnt answer all your question..

as to the cause...

possibly insulin resistance; gluten intolerance; irritable bowel; a diet high in saturated fats or hydrogenated fats; a diet which inhibits the conversion of 06 to GLA; deficiencies in the co-factors (vitamins and minerals) needed to convert 06 to GLA..excess caffeine consumption;

there are more possibilities just cant think of them right now.

For anyone looking to try to supplement GLA, some people in the Nutrition forum had more success when taking GLA with a soy lecithin supplement and a fatty meal or drink like milk. Their theory is that lecithin helps with fat digestion and absorption.

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Evening-P....html&st=20

I can't find a reliable source for that claim, though, so take it with a huge grain of salt.

I do not have AMVC scarring but I've been following this thread to try to determine why my existing acne scars so badly now even though the acne itself is less severe than it was when I didn't scar.

 

Freedom's post is very interesting to me as I've always had terrible reactions to fish and cod liver oil supplements- hive-like acne bumps and rashes a few days after I start supplementation which stop forming as soon as I stop taking the pills. Because of this, I've never taken fish oil for an extended period of time, as I could never understand why it affected me so negatively.

 

I had some definite clearance of my skin with low doses of evening primrose oil but I don't think the scarring stopped; I could only take it for about two weeks though because I suddenly started getting GI distress and my hormones went wacky. I take hemp oil (has GLA and omega 3s) every day now and it helps my skin a bit, but I'm still scarring from everything. I eat a ton of kale and veggies and drink 3 cups of rooibos tea a day, and have chia seeds with breakfast and salmon for dinner 2-3x/week.

 

Is it possible that omega 3s and anti-inflammatory foods could be a cause for my scarring even though I've never supplemented with fish oil or Vitamin A for long periods of time, or taken Accutane? I just can't figure out why my skin is suddenly so fragile...

You sound just like me. My acne is less severe than it used to be, yet my skin is very very fragile. Nearly every zit leaves me a scar now. I've never taken accutane either but I've been scarring very very easily the last 18 months or so. I've gotten most of my scars during this time.

I started scarring from every pimple a couple months into BP. I've NEVER used accutane or retin-a, but I have used many glycolic acid products including peels but im certain that it is not making me prone to scarring.

For anyone looking to try to supplement GLA, some people in the Nutrition forum had more success when taking GLA with a soy lecithin supplement and a fatty meal or drink like milk. Their theory is that lecithin helps with fat digestion and absorption.

 

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Evening-P....html&st=20

 

I can't find a reliable source for that claim, though, so take it with a huge grain of salt.

I actually tried this when this thread came out-found out lecithin is a huge no-no for me personally, seemed to block my GLA, really dried out and thinned my skin= more scars. I would experiment with GLA alone first before adding lecithin. If your scarring is from low/deficient calcium lecithin can make things worse as it contains alot of phosphorus and choline which are both antagonistic towards calcium. I am (was?) deficient in calcium which could be the reason I scarred whilst taking lecithin.

Freedon - thanks for the reply but theres one thing you said that i didnt quite understand ... did your seb derm do away after oral supplementaton with borage / EPO ? ... or was it the topical that cleard your seb derm

by the way i have been gluten free for a number of months but it doesnt seem to help at all. i really need to get rid of my seb derm its getting worse. what brand of supplement do u use ?

ive just had a look at primose oil supp and it contain:

Each softgel capsule provides: Evening Primrose Seed Oil1300mg Providing: Linoleic Acid960mg Gamma-Linolenic Acid (GLA)130mg Oleic Acid 90mg Palmitic Acid75mg Other Fatty Acids45mg Vitamin E(10iu, as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate)6.7mg

should i get one that doesnt have Oleic Acid ?

I do not have AMVC scarring but I've been following this thread to try to determine why my existing acne scars so badly now even though the acne itself is less severe than it was when I didn't scar.

 

Freedom's post is very interesting to me as I've always had terrible reactions to fish and cod liver oil supplements- hive-like acne bumps and rashes a few days after I start supplementation which stop forming as soon as I stop taking the pills. Because of this, I've never taken fish oil for an extended period of time, as I could never understand why it affected me so negatively.

 

I had some definite clearance of my skin with low doses of evening primrose oil but I don't think the scarring stopped; I could only take it for about two weeks though because I suddenly started getting GI distress and my hormones went wacky. I take hemp oil (has GLA and omega 3s) every day now and it helps my skin a bit, but I'm still scarring from everything. I eat a ton of kale and veggies and drink 3 cups of rooibos tea a day, and have chia seeds with breakfast and salmon for dinner 2-3x/week.

 

Is it possible that omega 3s and anti-inflammatory foods could be a cause for my scarring even though I've never supplemented with fish oil or Vitamin A for long periods of time, or taken Accutane? I just can't figure out why my skin is suddenly so fragile...

You sound just like me. My acne is less severe than it used to be, yet my skin is very very fragile. Nearly every zit leaves me a scar now. I've never taken accutane either but I've been scarring very very easily the last 18 months or so. I've gotten most of my scars during this time.

 

I started scarring from every pimple a couple months into BP. I've NEVER used accutane or retin-a, but I have used many glycolic acid products including peels but im certain that it is not making me prone to scarring.

 

this is exactly how my skin is aswell .. never done omega 3 supps or vitamin a .. infact ive never really taken a multivitamin

@ Freedom: That's good to know! Everyone reacts differently to things, but it's definitely a good idea to try GLA by itself first, then add lecithin in after a few months if the results are unsatisfactory, I think.

@ AcnePwns and v_singh: How long have you guys had acne for? I feel like the fragility of my skin is due to the fact that I've had acne for over 10 years and have used many different harsh topicals in that time period. Duac + Differin made me look like a greasy, bumpy tomato for a few months, for instance.

Freedon - thanks for the reply but theres one thing you said that i didnt quite understand ... did your seb derm do away after oral supplementaton with borage / EPO ? ... or was it the topical that cleard your seb derm

 

by the way i have been gluten free for a number of months but it doesnt seem to help at all. i really need to get rid of my seb derm its getting worse. what brand of supplement do u use ?

 

ive just had a look at primose oil supp and it contain:

 

Each softgel capsule provides: Evening Primrose Seed Oil1300mg Providing: Linoleic Acid960mg Gamma-Linolenic Acid (GLA)130mg Oleic Acid 90mg Palmitic Acid75mg Other Fatty Acids45mg Vitamin E(10iu, as d-alpha tocopheryl acetate)6.7mg

 

should i get one that doesnt have Oleic Acid ?

my seb derm went away with oral primrose oil, but since all oils contain oleic acid even primrose oil will cause flares in the begining until your GLA/O6 gets back up to normal levels.

I used topical primrose to help both during flares, but topical use will also heal the skin. I've used topical borage/primrose on my belly and have seen positive effects on facial skin. Topical GLA will be absorbed systemically, which might even be a good thing to do if your liver/or gall bladder is having problems processing fats.

should i get one that doesnt have Oleic Acid ?

thanks for the reply ... which brand of primose did you use that cleard your seb derm ?

thanks for the reply ... which brand of primose did you use that cleard your seb derm ?

barleens brand

@ AcnePwns and v_singh: How long have you guys had acne for? I feel like the fragility of my skin is due to the fact that I've had acne for over 10 years and have used many different harsh topicals in that time period. Duac + Differin made me look like a greasy, bumpy tomato for a few months, for instance.

Since I was 11. I am now 23. My acne has its ups and downs however. I had severe forehead cystic acne when I was 11-13 (this was when I got most of my forehead scars). I then had moderate acne throughout high school on my cheeks and jawline area which almost never left a scar. About 18 months ago, I started scarring from EVERY zit that I have. almost all of the scars that I have now on my cheeks and jawline are from the last 18 months. It all happened after the use of BP but I do not think it was the cause.

I do not have AMVC scarring but I've been following this thread to try to determine why my existing acne scars so badly now even though the acne itself is less severe than it was when I didn't scar.

 

Freedom's post is very interesting to me as I've always had terrible reactions to fish and cod liver oil supplements- hive-like acne bumps and rashes a few days after I start supplementation which stop forming as soon as I stop taking the pills. Because of this, I've never taken fish oil for an extended period of time, as I could never understand why it affected me so negatively.

 

I had some definite clearance of my skin with low doses of evening primrose oil but I don't think the scarring stopped; I could only take it for about two weeks though because I suddenly started getting GI distress and my hormones went wacky. I take hemp oil (has GLA and omega 3s) every day now and it helps my skin a bit, but I'm still scarring from everything. I eat a ton of kale and veggies and drink 3 cups of rooibos tea a day, and have chia seeds with breakfast and salmon for dinner 2-3x/week.

 

Is it possible that omega 3s and anti-inflammatory foods could be a cause for my scarring even though I've never supplemented with fish oil or Vitamin A for long periods of time, or taken Accutane? I just can't figure out why my skin is suddenly so fragile...

You sound just like me. My acne is less severe than it used to be, yet my skin is very very fragile. Nearly every zit leaves me a scar now. I've never taken accutane either but I've been scarring very very easily the last 18 months or so. I've gotten most of my scars during this time.

 

I started scarring from every pimple a couple months into BP. I've NEVER used accutane or retin-a, but I have used many glycolic acid products including peels but im certain that it is not making me prone to scarring.

 

I'm sorry but I think you should rethink the glycolic acid peels and the long term effect they can have on the skin. Even if it's not immediate visible damage, Long term use of harsh exfoliant peels that destroy the basal layer of epidermis and cause permanent impairment or thinning of the papillary dermis, making your skin react and appear similar in texture to a 60 year old. The long term use of BP/AHA/BHA/TCA's can change your skins ability to heal correctly and in most cases (like mine) it appears to be permanent. I do get spontaneous scarring now, and I can literally get a crater from a blackhead the width of a pin. I had very resilient skin that would only scar if I literally dug a hole in my face, I had small pores, I had even texture and I healed from pimples well. Years on BP, mandelic acid, salicylic acid, and recently 1 WEAK TCA peel put me over the edge permanently. I will probably spend the rest of my life looking for ways to FIX the damage these chemicals have caused. I've also never been on accutane or retin-a. I'm not trying to scare you but these are the facts that manufacturers will never mention. . . Please focus on dropping the peels/strong topicals and give your skin a chance to regenerate and maybe things will heal themselves overtime. I'm following this advice aswell but I think my skins a lost cause now... but at least I know I'm not making anything worse. I'm considering needling + LED light + Vitamins/Supplements in awhile . . Only reason I could even consider this on such fragile skin is because the damage to the already weakened epidermis is very minimal..and as ironic as it sounds, Poking tiny holes into your face with needles is actually one of the safest procedures with the least amount of risk. . and above all, RESULTS =D