great attitude man. Hope you'll heal well

This gave me some good laughs and I'm so happy to hear about the improvements you've had over the years. I wish you a speedy recovery and many months of healing results. I think we underestimate how long our skin adjusts, you could get 9 months or so before it really is the end result.

I really want this procedure but my topwonder is about the strategy after? Did someone drive you home? For people who travel, did you stay at a airbnb? I guess a niceairbnb and a driver to get you there would be the best option.

I also wonder how much longer this treatment is even going to be available. How far from retirement is Rullan? Nobody else is taking over this method that I know. Was total price charged from the office around 6 or 7k?

1 hour ago, Kay24 said:

This gave me some good laughs and I'm so happy to hear about the improvements you've had over the years. I wish you a speedy recovery and many months of healing results. I think we underestimate how long our skin adjusts, you could get 9 months or so before it really is the end result.

I really want this procedure but my topwonder is about the strategy after? Did someone drive you home? For people who travel, did you stay at a airbnb? I guess a niceairbnb and a driver to get you there would be the best option.

I also wonder how much longer this treatment is even going to be available. How far from retirement is Rullan? Nobody else is taking over this method that I know. Was total price charged from the office around 6 or 7k?

Hi!

I'd say you need about 3 days in San Diego/Chula Vista to get it done. Try to just get a reliable friend/family member to help you. Professional care givers areveryexpensive and you really don't need that level of care for that time frame. I didn't use Airbnb but rather the cheapest motel I could find and it was a steal at $45 a night which is way cheaper than the former. Plus it was clean!

There was another provider actually much closer to me providing this peel andhe is in the same age bracket as Rullan. I didn't select him cause he didn't have a lot of experience with people of color (mainly just old white ladies) and especially those with acne scars. From what he (the other guy) told me is that phenol peels are a dying art in that lasers have taken over as the standard for total facial rejuvenation to which he and others could agree. While phenol has a longer downtime the chemical on rejuvenating the skin is almost tried and true. I spoke to Rullan and he has no plans on retiring anytime soon. If he does, his daughter Jennifer would be more than competent to conducting the procedure.

I paid $6k for the total treatment at Rullan. I'll judge its worth at the end of my recovery period which I have set to March 2022. So far, so good!

Wishing you the best! Do you have a customer facing job?

1 hour ago, gynoscar said:

Wishing you the best! Do you have a customer facing job?

Sort of. My job is remote but I do need to be on camera sometimes. My face doesn't look too bad on camera but it also depends on lighting/filters.

Definitely consider a light tinted moisturiser or something similar. It will help with the redness as the redness lasts for months after (it gets better over time, like two weeks post-op you look like a tomato). And if you go for the oxygen peel that might help.

Your post brought me back to what it was like having the phenol done. Its really hard to describe the procedure to someone who has never had it done before. The first 3 days are so challenging and the pain is definitely up there. But you got this!

I knew that phenol peeling is not effective on deep acne scars.

11 hours ago, shei514 said:

Definitely consider a light tinted moisturiser or something similar. It will help with the redness as the redness lasts for months after (it gets better over time, like two weeks post-op you look like a tomato). And if you go for the oxygen peel that might help.

Your post brought me back to what it was like having the phenol done. Its really hard to describe the procedure to someone who has never had it done before. The first 3 days are so challenging and the pain is definitely up there. But you got this!

@shei514You are a queen for going through with this! I appreciate you so much for your thread and answering my questions!

I know it's been a while since you last posted but howlong did it fully take to get back to your normal skin color? Like three months at most? Do you have any tinted moisturizer brands that you recommend? The patient coordinator provided me with a concealer specifically meant for post-op skin patients but the redness bleeds through. I guess I'llhave to wait it out for it to look more normal.

Also, did you have really bad panda/raccoon eyes first weeks post op? While my under eye circles/wrinkles have improved a lot, the rest of my eyes are all dark and did not get phenol application as much. I'm worried the pigmentation might be off as I move closer to being fully healed.

God speed on your skin journey!

6 hours ago, catchingFeelings said:

I knew that phenol peeling is not effective on deep acne scars.

You're right, it's not. You're supposed to get other treatments (subcision, microneedling with or without RF, TCA, etc) to raise the scar as much as possiblebeforeyou get this peel done. Phenol specifically for acne scars is meant to level everything out from a texture standpoint. It does however induce collagen reproduction but not to the degree of other treatments I would say.

1 month has pass. i'm wondering where you stand with the phenol peel procedure?

Call we see photos?

I asked rullan to do my fore head and he ignored that.

On 1/28/2022 at 9:15 PM, gynoscar said:

1 month has pass. i'm wondering where you stand with the phenol peel procedure?

Apparently I don't know how forums/online message boards work so I'm repasting my update here. It's a separate post as well!

___

Hello all!

2022 Phenol Peel Progression (album)

I wanted to follow up where I last left off on embarking on the notorious phenol peel journey by informing you all where I'm at right now as I close in on the 50th day of post-op with Dr. Rullan. I count this as the 50th day when the bismuth sulfate mask (aka "The Thing from Fantastic 4 Mask") came off. If you want to count it from the first day of the procedure, I've numbered the photos as so in previous post's imgur album. Please don't be mad at me for doing it this way. I only want to post this way as to ensure my privacy. 

Basically, here's where I'm at right now: My skin has gotten a lot sensitive to the point where 2 minutes in the sun feel like hell unless I have SPF 50 with zinc oxide and my handy, dandy Asian Mom Face Shield Visor. My skin is slowly reverting back to my untanned form and much of the hyperpigmentation and textural scarring left by years of cystic acne have improved by miles but I still have a marathon to go for healing. I don't really bat an eye when seeing most of my acne scars anymore as they look a lot better surface wise. I already knew volume/collagen loss wouldn't be resolved with phenol peel so I wasn't too surprised there. (Filler recommendations anyone? Getting kinda tired of this acne scar skinsecurity if you ask me)

I still have burn marks or PIH (Rullan used the terms interchangeably) around the demarcation line around the neck and the eyes. In addition, around days 40-48 I started to receive irritation, redness, and some minor acne around the cheeks; something along the lines of tiny whiteheads. They're annoying but I don't dare scratch at them. We all know what happens when you f*ck with acne by scratching.

I am still quite worried as some may have felt around this mark. My skin is very beat up, uncomfortable, and I get weird stares from coworkers, gym mates, and strangers. Up close, the skin doesn't look normal. It's like a cross between having your face dragged across sandpaper, the Sahara in July, and having no sleep for two weeks only to be hydrated later on; the skin looks weathered but it looks better than where it was before, ironically. I know it's a part of the healing process but I just need to stick through with it. 

As for daily routines, I've been using a pH-neutral face wash (CosRX Good Morning FaceWash) along with Alastin Skin Serum ($$$) day and night. If my face does get a little dry during the day, which it often does, I apply a dime-sized amount of Hada-Lobo HA facial moisturizer. Thank you, Covid for making remote work a thing! I would be dying of anxiety every day in the office if I had to go to work like this! I stopped using green primer + foundation during weeks 1-3 because it was pointless as the redness was so damn RED it bled through the make-up. It looked less harsh on Google Meet but 1000x harsh on Zoom calls. I would lie and say I was having technical difficulties for my camera being off. By week 5, much of the redness traded in for PIH so I was able to somewhat get away with using just a tinted moisturizer. The skin still looks weird and irritated but a lot better than it was before. I live like a vampire: Waking up at 0400 to go workout and jog, only to race home before sunrise. And then when the sun dips below the horizon I go out to do grocery shopping or go for a nice walk to de-stress from a long day. 

I only hope my skin is looking solid at the 90 day mark. I spent a pretty penny on this procedure and it would kill me if I got subpar results. I'll hopefully post again at the 80 or 90 day mark. 

Yes, I did sacrifice my leftover ProActive from 2008 to the Skin Gods. They're probably mad at me that I sent them some expired shit and gave me some irritation. Oh, well. 

Looks god so far!

When do you think you can use things like tretinoin to help with the PIH?

Could you also add photos from before the peel ?

Thanks and I hope everything is going well!!!

On 12/31/2021 at 10:48 AM, wombatstaywoke said:

Hello all!

I wanted to use this section to document my progress phenol peel. I wanted to do this in one go so I don't have to keep checking this website as much. I'll try to post pictures en masse at the 30 day mark.

Update 02/08/2022: Imgur AlbumDays 1-50 (I'll be adding photos in real time)

2014: Acne Scar Journey Begins on a Bad Start:

Fed up big time and went to a plastic surgeons office where I was oversold on the care package below. I did get significant improvement but not to the extent that I wouldve liked in relation to the money I spent. I still get mad thinking about the price so Im not gonna drop it.

• 3x Infini RF - This is literally the only thing that worked (-_-)
• 3x PRP facial aka vampire facial (aka aka waste of money)
  • Not really sure if this actually contributed to anything but science said so?
• 3x. Glycolic acid peel - to control oiliness during above
  • I most likely got ripped off by having this added to my care package. Felt like a glorified Neutragena byproduct rubbed on my face.

Total Improvement from Baseline: ~20%

2015 - 2018: Financial Recovery Period and DIY Days

Poor as hell and underemployed, I paid off the debt for the first round. I discovered here and on blogs that scars and specifically acne scar revision is a subset within dermatology that requires specific modalities besides just a laser to wipe a face clean. I discovered the impact of at home microneedling using OwnDocs device as well as DIY TCA Cross.

I received a good amount of improvement using at home methods, almost just as much as the professional scar treatment I got from the surgeons office. I would go into the office with redness and scabs on my face topped with brown and blotchy clown makeup (iM a GuY) to cover it up.

I did treatments on and off every 7 weeks, microneedling with Derminator 2.0mm and 2.5mm first on boxcar scars and then suctioning each section everyday for two weeks. On day 4 I would do TCA Cross on small boxcars, pores, and icepicks.

• ~12x Derminator Microneedling sessions at 2.00mm/2.5mm
  • Smacking the cheeks every 7 weeks!
  • Speed: Medium
  • Arsenal: 9 needle cartridge; f*ck that single needle sh*t.
  • Did you get the temples? Lol Like that worked
  • Suction: Until the area turns into a grape.
• ~20x TCA 100% Cross
  • Ice picks, little boxcar scars, and faux pores.
  • Used at my discretion whenever I saw them.
  • Literally the real MVP when it comes to DIY acne scar treatment.

Total Improvement from 2014: ~20%

2019-2020: More Money = Time to Treat

With a solid understanding of how to treat acne scars now, its time to research real dermatologists who have the skill to do it. After watching Dr. Davin Lim, Board Certified Dermatologist in Brisbane, Australias numerous educational videos on modalities and treatments I felt informed on what I needed to do next: manual methods then the best energy device.

At this point I realized once I have the relevant patient/consumer info, I can tackle the issue in the most cost efficient way possible. I get the following treatments from a series of doctors over the course of this year:

• #1 Infini RF x Nokor subcision (December 2019)
  • Subcision acne scars using a single point of entry per scar (that popping sound tho)
  • Infini: Literally, whats the point of numbing cream when I can feel the heat and all 49 needles?
• #2 Infini RF x Cannula subcision (July 2020)
  • You can just not give me numbing cream. Acne scars hurt more than these needles
  • Subcision: Single point entry for the entire face.
• #3 Infini RF (October 2020)
  • No, I dont want your exclusive acne scar package. Only thing vampire facial is gonna fix is your wallet

Total Improvement from 2018: ~30%

2021: Time to top it off; getting too old for this level of worry.

All the treatments Ive done at the point have converged to this moment. My scars are at a level where Im content albeit not happy with them. Under the worst lighting, under the sun, even under the sea, theyre almost faint and I need to actually need to try to get myself worked up about my scars. Nothings perfect - no treatment plan nor no face. Trust me, Ive seen a lot celebrities in person with a past job I worked and while they may not eat cake, they sure as hell have cake-like faces with makeup covering their skin imperfections. At least your acne scars are deeper than their personalities, most likely!

So I drive to meet what some here might call. The Guy to get The Procedure.

Everything from puberty, to sports, to eating like sh*t, to even the skin treatments have fed my skin pretty good and its not the best texture. I go in and sign the dotted line and hope for the best:

• Phenol Peel (feat. cannula subcision, Phenol Cross here and there, Tongue Depressor chemabrasion to cure your Skin Depression)
  • This is literally the boss battle for your entire face - but you want the boss to win.

Total Improvement from 2020: TBD

12/20: Day 1 - Not feeling excited about this procedure since its the week of Christmas but I figured this is the best gift I can hope to give myself for the future and to kill appearance anxiety once and for all. Im sure the cold weather, holiday break, and remote work will be on my side during healing. From what @f93d has said, this downtime is no joke and Im trying to mentally prepare for that.

Dr. Rullan has an ER nurse drug me up with narcotics and hooks me up to an IV. My heart rate is pretty fast and blood pressure is moderately high indicating that Im clearly nervous despite me saying Im calm.

The procedure on Day 1 of 2 is the worst. Although the procedure is a conscious sedation, I could still feel the cannula through my cheeks and each swab of the first layer of phenol. The stinging sensation lasts for almost 140 or so LONG seconds. Even with fentanyl you can still feel a good amount of pain. After about two hours of subcision and the first phenol pass on all quadrants, they tape up my face and net me up. I look like a bank robber who got his ass beat because he didnt know the tellers would all be UFC fighters.

My face doesnt look too bad leaving the clinic but when I get to the hotel my face has swelled up immensely. I could barely read the subject lines of emails on my laptop and had to force my eyes open using two fingers. Im given pain medication and insomnia pills but they barely ward off the itching and burning pain caused by the phenol. I sleep and wake up about four times throughout the night. Im crying harder and louder in my own head than the baby up on the floor above.

___

12/21: Day 2 - I go into the office to see Rullan and his team and the first one to greet me is the ER nurse whos ready to drug me up yet again. She asks how I tolerated last night and I inform her that I could barely sleep. My face felt as if it was on fire, like a thousand ants were digging their way through to my skull. This day is usually a little bit worse but at least youre here for a shorter amount of time. Our conversation doesnt last long before Rullan comes in with the goodies.

Im consciously sedated again. The nurses carefully remove the net stocking off my fluid-filled and swollen head like releasing an over-pump Costco grapefruit from its packaging. They then carefully remove the tape so as to not rip off any scarred skin. Dr. Rullan instructs his nurses to scrape my face with tongue depressors of what damage the first coat of phenol had done. Holy sh*t! I can feel this with a lot of itchiness and pain. Rullan comes over to me, eyes opposite mine upside down and says, ready for round 2?. Without giving a response because of the painkillers effect, he begins to scrape my face with what feels like sandpaper. He does this for roughly three or so minutes on each cheek. Im not sure if he got my temples despite me asking him to specifically target those areas. I get a 30 second rest and the nurses press on my cheeks with gauze and sssSSZZZZzzz. goes the second coat of phenol on the abraded skin. They hold it for a solid 20 seconds in each area - It burns like no other.

The team is done doing their damage - the face is a wreck and they refuse to show me with a mirror because of how much of a mess it is. They top it all off with bismuth powder over the entire face minus the orbital regions. Wheeling my closet crybaby self down to the first floor, the nurse says I handled it well compared to other patients. I look at the full body mirror in the lobby and think two things: was this a mistake to do this? and wow, I look like a man who just wanted to dip his face into some cumin, huh?

___

12/23 - 12/25: Day 4-6: It takes three days for my swollen eyes to open back up and my mouth is held nearly shut by the stiffness of the mask. I can barely open my mouth to accept a stick of chewing gum. My face is in pain and it is itching like crazy. The prescribed prednisone can only do so much to ward off the urge to rip off the cumin mask and scratch away.

Its getting crustier by the hour and the mask really cuts into the lines where Rullan drew the borders. Im yearning for the Day 8 mark as I type this, reading the Dermatology Institutes 2-Day Phenol Post-Op care doc. I want to know if Rullan can see me so he can remove this Hades-forsaken mask off my face and tell me the next steps to heal.

Thank goodness I can text him and send him all my concerns. And to think, Im missing out on a juicy turkey dinner and vanilla bean ice cream with apple pie because all I can have are liquid foods. Everyone in my home is singing and saying HO HO HO around me and all I can think about are the HA HA HAs I got throughout life because of my sh*t skin. I reframe those memories into thinking they were just telling me to get something with hyaluronic acid this entire time. Thank you, friends! (@ssholes!).

__

12/28 - Day 8: I drove to Chula Vista to get the mask removed from Dr. Rullan himself as I had some additional followup questions to ask. Normally you could do this at home but I wanted to be sure I was clear on next steps. Even with pandemic shortages and inflation, gas money is no object to me to make sure my skin concerns are squared away. Others who have gotten this (@f93dand @shei514) are not kidding about the redness. My face is a combination of red as a tomato to a cosplayer trying too hard to look like Kirby from Mario Kart or worse.

I look at his magnification mirror and it looks like all the skin imperfections that Ive been scrutinizing for the past 15 years are nearly gone: Boxcars seem elevated and flattened; ice picks feel as though they need a microscope to be seen; rolling scars seem theyve blended with the curvature of my cheeks. Im trying not to get too excited as this could very well be swelling from the peel but Rullan says this is a good sign and with the entire healing process being a year the expectations should be higher. Also, shout out to the prior procedures Ive done in the past. I wouldn't have gotten here without you! (Except you vampire facial)

The most significant thing to worry about right now is the hard red complexion that I have. Im just concerned as to how Im going to plan my social life as I write this since the contrast between my face, neck, and chest is absurd. One of the reasons I got this procedure was so my facial complexion could match my neck more but I dont know if Id feel more elated or worried if it ended up matching my chest! Id better suck it up and make a trip down to Sephora so I can get color matched. Rullan informs me to get an oxygen facial next week and end of month to help reduce sensitivity and redness. This and a special serum in my procedure goody bag are aimed at tackling just that. Thank goodness theyre included in the price I paid for the peel!

__

12/29 - Day 9: The skin is so much cleaner today than it was yesterday. The use of the cleanser provided to me removes much of the mask remaining on my face as well as any excess oil. I leave much of the mask thats within the border of my hairline intact and try not to pick it as it will just irritate my skin. Shampooing and adding conditioner in hair has never felt so refreshing! I use the serum provided to me as directed and while I was told to use Aquaphor for the first three days switch to using an HA moisturizer as the texture is better and is already refreshing.

The skin is tender but not as tender as you would think for an operation of this magnitude. What I think is renewed skin is probably post procedure swelling. As I said before, I wont get too excited about it so well see how it fares in about a week after my first oxygen facial and and a month after my second one.

The elephant in the room at this stage of the phenol peel is the redness. Its insane and I cant stop looking at my face with equal parts worry and awe and how much constructive damage the peel has done. Depending on the lighting my face looks like a faint salmon-like pink outdoors to a bright hot red when indoors next to my monitor. Im not looking forward to putting on makeup. I already know its going to look likeshitbecause I can barely spread mayo on bread. Im trying not to worry about it as I know others have healed just as well and Im hoping Im no exception to the studies done on those with skin types IV and V. Skin gods, please be on my side! Ill send you a sacrifice of my leftover Proactive from 2008!

By the way do you have pictures right before the phenol? So we can see a comparison of the scarring

@SaraTheGerman @Catharsis2018

Hello! Please see below I've attached photos from late 2015 of my left side (the worst side and my most concerning) and where I'm currently at with phenol healing process. So far, I'm satisfied with the healing results. I'm just very concerned about the PIH that has developed around my eyes. I tried using azelaic acid on my eyes but it caused quite a bit or irritation and stopped. I don't think I'll even try to add this on that area until after 3 months have passed. The skin is still raw and red and depending on how the lighting is;  it can show up as brown, pink,  or red-brown. I try to stay indoors as much as possible because my skin is very sensitive.

I'd say phenol peel has provided a decent but not amazing amount of collagen stimulation on my acne scars (namely boxcars). The texture right now is still very beat up but I'm still healing. 

3 hours ago, wombatstaywoke said:

@SaraTheGerman @Catharsis2018

Hello! Please see below I've attached photos from late 2015 of my left side (the worst side and my most concerning) and where I'm currently at with phenol healing process. So far, I'm satisfied with the healing results. I'm just very concerned about the PIH that has developed around my eyes. I tried using azelaic acid on my eyes but it caused quite a bit or irritation and stopped. I don't think I'll even try to add this on that area until after 3 months have passed. The skin is still raw and red and depending on how the lighting is;  it can show up as brown, pink,  or red-brown. I try to stay indoors as much as possible because my skin is very sensitive.

I'd say phenol peel has provided a decent but not amazing amount of collagen stimulation on my acne scars (namely boxcars). The texture right now is still very beat up but I'm still healing. 

 

 

Thank you for posting these. And wow does your texture look so much better! Amazing. It seems the boxcars on the cheek responded better than the forehead (filled up more), is that right? 

Considering the before photos, I think it's much better and mostly level from what I can see, the only lingering issue is coloration and some rolling texture.I still have rolling mess texture in light. I hope the coloration and around your eye fades, any suggestions from the doc on the coloration? Just a curiosity but is phenol more risky for ethnic skin?

14 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Thank you for posting these. And wow does your texture look so much better! Amazing. It seems the boxcars on the cheek responded better than the forehead (filled up more), is that right? 

I'd say the boxcars on my cheek have responded quite well to not just phenol peel but also the treatments that I've had beforehand including microneedling and RF microneedling (i.e. Infini and Fractora Firm). I don't really have forehead acne scars, thankfully. I had one scar in between my eyebrows caused by a large whitehead in college (~2011) however it has since been diminished because of phenol. Rullan does phenol cross on Day 2 of PCA light peel since your acne scars are clear, open, and easy to target after the mask from Day 1 comes off.

Also, I tried to take these photos in natural lighting against my window on a semi-cloudy day however it seems the lighting hit the sweet spot where the acne scars are. I'll take more detailed photos as the weeks progress. Hope that helps!

13 hours ago, harmlessboy1441 said:

Considering the before photos, I think it's much better and mostly level from what I can see, the only lingering issue is coloration and some rolling texture. I still have rolling mess texture in light. I hope the coloration and around your eye fades, any suggestions from the doc on the coloration? Just a curiosity but is phenol more risky for ethnic skin?

 

Yes, the discoloration was a concern before and after I had phenol. I was well aware of this issue but discoloration/pigmentation was an issue I wanted phenol peel to target in addition to acne scarring of all types. I don't know if you read the beginning of my thread, but my face is significantly darker than my body due to years of sports and that has ruined my mental health over the years. Rullan has suggested using 2% HQ however I haven't decided to use it since any cream that's not hydrocortisone (i.e. anti-itching cream) irritates my face a lot. I think I'll just wait until end of March 2022 to address PIH. Not sure if I'm just being kind to myself but it looks better by the week however the "raccoon" look is still there.

I think scarred texture or more specifically that "rolling scar texture" will persist even after you've hit the max improvement for your scars. It's a stubborn look but as long as that wavy appearance can look normal as much as possible under normal lighting conditions, I'm okay with it. I think it can be further improved by microneedling + RF or just microneedling + suction if you're on a budget. To be honest, we'll be stuck with imperfect skin for the long haul but it's better than what we had before, right? haha 

And yes, phenol peel is normally a procedure marketed to, and to be blunt, "old white ladies with severe photo damage". Rullan has been seen as the de facto practitioner of phenol for ethnic skin or skin types IV-VI for this peel. This is a major reason why I chose him because he has dozens of photos of people that look like me treated for acne scarring/pigmentation.  I did see another phenol peel provider in the area that has treated ethnic skin before for over 30+ years (LA/OC/SD) however this person did not use a specific phenol formula for ethnic skin (i.e. Croton Oil concentration - that matters a lot, look it up), subcision, cross, double phenol on day 2 et al. It was standard phenol on the entire face. The price difference between Rullan and this other practitioner was USD $1,000 in case you were wondering. On the matter of  long standing PIH, I think the notion of overall/majority "permanent pigmentary changes" is a little rare from when I spoke to Rullan. His studies do show ethnic patients with PIH still present after 3 months post-op however it's very minor and is usually resolved after an additional month or two.

I spoke to another dermatologist in Asia and she said that if I do persist with PIH that has lasted longer than 5+ months from phenol, she would suggest using Q-Switch or Pico lasers to fix the issue. Hopefully I won't have to do that but I have the funds ready should I need to execute the procedure. Hope that helps

On 2/22/2022 at 8:37 AM, wombatstaywoke said:

I'd say the boxcars on my cheek have responded quite well to not just phenol peel but also the treatments that I've had beforehand including microneedling and RF microneedling (i.e. Infini and Fractora Firm). I don't really have forehead acne scars, thankfully. I had one scar in between my eyebrows caused by a large whitehead in college (~2011) however it has since been diminished because of phenol. Rullan does phenol cross on Day 2 of PCA light peel since your acne scars are clear, open, and easy to target after the mask from Day 1 comes off.

Also, I tried to take these photos in natural lighting against my window on a semi-cloudy day however it seems the lighting hit the sweet spot where the acne scars are. I'll take more detailed photos as the weeks progress. Hope that helps!

 

Yes, the discoloration was a concern before and after I had phenol. I was well aware of this issue but discoloration/pigmentation was an issue I wanted phenol peel to target in addition to acne scarring of all types. I don't know if you read the beginning of my thread, but my face is significantly darker than my body due to years of sports and that has ruined my mental health over the years. Rullan has suggested using 2% HQ however I haven't decided to use it since any cream that's not hydrocortisone (i.e. anti-itching cream) irritates my face a lot. I think I'll just wait until end of March 2022 to address PIH. Not sure if I'm just being kind to myself but it looks better by the week however the "raccoon" look is still there.

I think scarred texture or more specifically that "rolling scar texture" will persist even after you've hit the max improvement for your scars. It's a stubborn look but as long as that wavy appearance can look normal as much as possible under normal lighting conditions, I'm okay with it. I think it can be further improved by microneedling + RF or just microneedling + suction if you're on a budget. To be honest, we'll be stuck with imperfect skin for the long haul but it's better than what we had before, right? haha 

And yes, phenol peel is normally a procedure marketed to, and to be blunt, "old white ladies with severe photo damage". Rullan has been seen as the de facto practitioner of phenol for ethnic skin or skin types IV-VI for this peel. This is a major reason why I chose him because he has dozens of photos of people that look like me treated for acne scarring/pigmentation.  I did see another phenol peel provider in the area that has treated ethnic skin before for over 30+ years (LA/OC/SD) however this person did not use a specific phenol formula for ethnic skin (i.e. Croton Oil concentration - that matters a lot, look it up), subcision, cross, double phenol on day 2 et al. It was standard phenol on the entire face. The price difference between Rullan and this other practitioner was USD $1,000 in case you were wondering. On the matter of  long standing PIH, I think the notion of overall/majority "permanent pigmentary changes" is a little rare from when I spoke to Rullan. His studies do show ethnic patients with PIH still present after 3 months post-op however it's very minor and is usually resolved after an additional month or two.

I spoke to another dermatologist in Asia and she said that if I do persist with PIH that has lasted longer than 5+ months from phenol, she would suggest using Q-Switch or Pico lasers to fix the issue. Hopefully I won't have to do that but I have the funds ready should I need to execute the procedure. Hope that helps

Hey Wombat, any updates on your healing? Any more results?

47 minutes ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Hey Wombat, any updates on your healing? Any more results?

Howdy!

I'd say scar wise the surface of my skin has improved to the point where I don't notice my scars in natural light anymore but alas they seem they haven't healed at all under harsh, overhead lighting. I think that's just the way lighting is when it's positioned above any shaped, object with a curve, no? Temple scars are still there. I really do think filler in that area is the only option.

Pigmentation wise, it's slightly better more or less. My face looks like it's slowly matching my untanned skin (i.e. neck and chest) as the phenol peel promises to provide, however it really depends on the time of day, what lighting I'm in, if I'm tired, and if I'm wearing sunscreen or not. At times it looks like I'm seeing pseudo-hypopigmentation or severe hyperpigmentation. I know that makes it sound like I'm crazy but it's true. I can tell you for a fact I have hyperpigmentation lines a la marionette mouth and raccoon eyes. Those seem to get better as the days go on. I've also noticed I have random little whiteheads all over my face, in particular the nose area. I'm told they'll go away with time. My facial complexion looks a little lighter than before with texture looking and feeling a lot better. 

I'll provide a more thorough update sometime next week with photos so you can see where I'm at. I don't want to judge this procedure until after a complete 4-5 months post operation because I am a person of color and that's clearly a factor affecting complete healing. I'd say as of now I'm satisfied but not 100% amazed by the results. Again, phenol works slowly to correct the skin's issues so please keep that mind. 

Stay tuned and thanks for checking with me!  

On 3/22/2022 at 8:24 PM, wombatstaywoke said:

Howdy!

I'd say scar wise the surface of my skin has improved to the point where I don't notice my scars in natural light anymore but alas they seem they haven't healed at all under harsh, overhead lighting. I think that's just the way lighting is when it's positioned above any shaped, object with a curve, no? Temple scars are still there. I really do think filler in that area is the only option.

Pigmentation wise, it's slightly better more or less. My face looks like it's slowly matching my untanned skin (i.e. neck and chest) as the phenol peel promises to provide, however it really depends on the time of day, what lighting I'm in, if I'm tired, and if I'm wearing sunscreen or not. At times it looks like I'm seeing pseudo-hypopigmentation or severe hyperpigmentation. I know that makes it sound like I'm crazy but it's true. I can tell you for a fact I have hyperpigmentation lines a la marionette mouth and raccoon eyes. Those seem to get better as the days go on. I've also noticed I have random little whiteheads all over my face, in particular the nose area. I'm told they'll go away with time. My facial complexion looks a little lighter than before with texture looking and feeling a lot better. 

I'll provide a more thorough update sometime next week with photos so you can see where I'm at. I don't want to judge this procedure until after a complete 4-5 months post operation because I am a person of color and that's clearly a factor affecting complete healing. I'd say as of now I'm satisfied but not 100% amazed by the results. Again, phenol works slowly to correct the skin's issues so please keep that mind. 

Stay tuned and thanks for checking with me!  

Thank YOU for all of your updates. did you ever have whiteheads before the procedure? I™m glad to hear your skin is healing and that texture is feeling better. Would you say your temple scars have improved the least? Would you ever consider another phenol? (Finances aside?)

4 hours ago, Catharsis2018 said:

Thank YOU for all of your updates. did you ever have whiteheads before the procedure? I™m glad to hear your skin is healing and that texture is feeling better. Would you say your temple scars have improved the least? Would you ever consider another phenol? (Finances aside?)

I get minor inflammation here and there but no I've never had whiteheads before the procedure. I think shei514 had a similar experience. But these are whiteheads that aren't subsiding after days of using facial wash and azelaic acid, so it's a bit concerning. I would most definitely say that my temples responded the least to phenol peel. Again, the texture has improved under angled lighting but it terms of collagen formation, I haven't really seen that much of a difference. Maybe like ~10% if even. 

I would consider phenol maybe three or four years from now. I don't see finances as that big of an issue since I'm generally a smart spender even though I don't make much money. I'm a simple man. The reason for the time frame is that because we as acne scar sufferers look at our skin so much, we let it hold us back from actually enjoying life. When my skin get really battered from age, weather, and the occasional junk food I'll be eating here and there I'll consider it. I think I'd like to try anterior chemabrasion as I think it could do a good job in surfacing the remaining boxcar and rolling scars. I think that looks more promising than 2 day phenol since it uses old school sandpaper to resurface the skin.

Are you planning to get the procedure. Hope your day is going well!  

Do you know any doctor who does anterior chemabrasion?

7 hours ago, laserorange said:

Do you know any doctor who does anterior chemabrasion?

I'm actually trying to find a doctor myself who does that. It looks like it's a procedure that's been phased out in favor lasers, subcision, TCA, etc. Let me know if you find him/her!