HellzAngel : I don't think it is a good idea to do TCA CROSS along with Fraxel. If you are going to be treated with high settings, you will not fully recover from the treatment for atleast 3 weeks. TCA CROSS involves using high % TCA and though localized, would need 3-4 weeks to fully heal. So, you would need to do Fraxel treatment every 2 months or so. Also, even though skin looks like healed 3 weeks after the treatment, it is just surface healing and depending on the depth, it is still healing from inside so you would not want to irritate it more using TCA.
Regarding hyperpigmentation.....I can related with what you are describing, having faced it myself.
I think, you have already signed up for 5 treatments. Otherwise, I would have definitely asked you to reconsider your approach.....first do as much scar revision as possible and then Fraxel. This is especially true for non white skin. That way, lower settings can be used for Fraxel and you would see less issues such as hyperpigmentation. In my opinion, Lustra is okay but 3-4 weeks to treat it in between the treatments is not enough. I would be curious to know what you doctor's opinion would be about this.
Although it can be disheartening ( instead of bright even tone, skin looks blotchy and that masks any improvement in the scars ), there are quite a few effective ways to treat hyperpigmentation and it is certainly less difficult than scars. Apart from bleaching creams, chemical peels rock : light and medium depth peels. They can improve color and tone 100 %. But that needs to be done after all Fraxel treatments are done and skin is completely healed. So, there is hope. One just needs lots of patience and perserverence to go thr' it.
Well i pay as i go so i havent paid for all treatments. I agree with you regarding scar revision, but people might find it hard to understand this but there is no possibility of scar revision on my scars. My scars are so close together, and so many of them that its not quite possible. I saw a couple of surgeons before and both said that i should get some resurfacing then go for scar revision as resurfacing might make an improvement and scar revision would be easier (atleast on my face) and i kinda agree with them.
Yes blotchy and dark is exactly how i would describe it, i have had a couple of medium depth tca peels before and yah they do take care of the hyperpigmentation quite well, thats definately my plan.
For those experiencing breakouts:
The doctor can prescribe oral antibiotics. Someone long ago posted about taking minocin before treatment and during recovery. Even though it's supposed to cause photosensitivty they had no problems and no breakouts.
Biafine is a prescription you all might want to get too. It's a healing cream prescribed for burn patients getting skin grafts. It's supposed to be super for fraxel.
For those experiencing breakouts:
The doctor can prescribe oral antibiotics. Someone long ago posted about taking minocin before treatment and during recovery. Even though it's supposed to cause photosensitivty they had no problems and no breakouts.
Biafine is a prescription you all might want to get too. It's a healing cream prescribed for burn patients getting skin grafts. It's supposed to be super for fraxel.
As I stated, I've tried 2 oral antibiotics, one of which was minocin. It did nothing for me. Bummer.
And, as I stated many posts ago, Biafine is amazing and I highly recommend it for anyone doing fraxel.
For those experiencing breakouts:
The doctor can prescribe oral antibiotics. Someone long ago posted about taking minocin before treatment and during recovery. Even though it's supposed to cause photosensitivty they had no problems and no breakouts.
Biafine is a prescription you all might want to get too. It's a healing cream prescribed for burn patients getting skin grafts. It's supposed to be super for fraxel.
As I stated, I've tried 2 oral antibiotics, one of which was minocin. It did nothing for me. Bummer.
And, as I stated many posts ago, Biafine is amazing and I highly recommend it for anyone doing fraxel.
sorry this thread evolves so rapidly i forget.
For those experiencing breakouts:
The doctor can prescribe oral antibiotics. Someone long ago posted about taking minocin before treatment and during recovery. Even though it's supposed to cause photosensitivty they had no problems and no breakouts.
Biafine is a prescription you all might want to get too. It's a healing cream prescribed for burn patients getting skin grafts. It's supposed to be super for fraxel.
As I stated, I've tried 2 oral antibiotics, one of which was minocin. It did nothing for me. Bummer.
And, as I stated many posts ago, Biafine is amazing and I highly recommend it for anyone doing fraxel.
I just read about Biafine. It says you're supposed to cover your skin after applying. Did you do that? Also, how many times a day did you use it, and for how long? I'd like to try it when I go back in the fall for another round. Thanks!
For those experiencing breakouts:
The doctor can prescribe oral antibiotics. Someone long ago posted about taking minocin before treatment and during recovery. Even though it's supposed to cause photosensitivty they had no problems and no breakouts.
Biafine is a prescription you all might want to get too. It's a healing cream prescribed for burn patients getting skin grafts. It's supposed to be super for fraxel.
As I stated, I've tried 2 oral antibiotics, one of which was minocin. It did nothing for me. Bummer.
And, as I stated many posts ago, Biafine is amazing and I highly recommend it for anyone doing fraxel.
I just read about Biafine. It says you're supposed to cover your skin after applying. Did you do that? Also, how many times a day did you use it, and for how long? I'd like to try it when I go back in the fall for another round. Thanks!
Hi Cubsfan,
Have your break-outs subsided? I really hope that I stop breaking-out after my skin completely heals. Anyway, I don't recall reading that you're supposed to cover the skin after applying Biafine. My derm. never mentioned this either. I've been using it since my third fraxel, and I've never had any problems. It only makes my skin look better. I wear a moisturizing sunblock over the Biafine, and I use it for about a week after each fraxel, applying it two times a day. You should *definitely* get some for your next series of treatments. It makes an incredible difference in eliminating peeling and flaking, and making the skin heal more quickly overall.
Do you have any demarcation lines? I'm very fair skinned, and I have a demarcation line, mostly around my mouth where the derm. has had a more difficult time fraxeling. I really hope this goes away after I've given my skin time to heal.
Bleh. I can't wait til I'm done with fraxel. I'm sick of it.
I just read about Biafine. It says you're supposed to cover your skin after applying. Did you do that? Also, how many times a day did you use it, and for how long? I'd like to try it when I go back in the fall for another round. Thanks!
I was reading about it too...it says to apply 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick layer....that's a lot of Biafine...;)
I'm going to ask my PS about it at my next Fraxel next friday. I wonder if it interferes somehow with the exfoliation process though. Wouldn't it prevent all the flaking that happens after Fraxel?
I just read about Biafine. It says you're supposed to cover your skin after applying. Did you do that? Also, how many times a day did you use it, and for how long? I'd like to try it when I go back in the fall for another round. Thanks!
I was reading about it too...it says to apply 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick layer....that's a lot of Biafine...;)
I'm going to ask my PS about it at my next Fraxel next friday. I wonder if it interferes somehow with the exfoliation process though. Wouldn't it prevent all the flaking that happens after Fraxel?
Hi widgie,
According to my derm. (one of the leading fraxel researchers), not peeling doesn't affect the results of fraxel. Also, yes, it does say to apply 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick layer, but I don't think that's necessary. Up to a few days after my fraxel I apply a ton of it (although i don't know if it's a 1/2 inch thick!), but as the days go by I apply less.
Hi widgie,
According to my derm. (one of the leading fraxel researchers), not peeling doesn't affect the results of fraxel. Also, yes, it does say to apply 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick layer, but I don't think that's necessary. Up to a few days after my fraxel I apply a ton of it (although i don't know if it's a 1/2 inch thick!), but as the days go by I apply less.
Thanks bluekit.... I am definitely going to mention it to my PS now. My face is SO itchy today. I have very dry skin even without the Fraxel treatments so the flaking has been pretty bad.
Peel from #4 is starting to come off and I must confess some disappointment. I was really hoping that the this last treatment at high settings would show some immediate benefit. My only scarring on center face are scarred pores and the scale is still on the jawline (where the bigger scars reside), so I have been assessing my response based on about 7 scarred pores on nose and under eyes. Frankly, they don't look any better than pre #4. Yet, they seem so shallow that they would disappear with a light sanding.
For those who have been through several, what is your success with scarred pores? How much relative improvement occurs in say the first 3 days vs the next 60?
Also, the scale is thicker this time and I shaved yesterday, but held off today, thinking it might help to keep the scale on as long as possible. I have call into Doc, but was wondering how others have addressed this. Doc had told me to not resume my 1 hour daily swim until i stop peeling (not becasue of sun) and this got me thinking that maybe I should be doing everything I can to keep the scale in place. Any thoughts?
For those experiencing breakouts:
The doctor can prescribe oral antibiotics. Someone long ago posted about taking minocin before treatment and during recovery. Even though it's supposed to cause photosensitivty they had no problems and no breakouts.
Biafine is a prescription you all might want to get too. It's a healing cream prescribed for burn patients getting skin grafts. It's supposed to be super for fraxel.
As I stated, I've tried 2 oral antibiotics, one of which was minocin. It did nothing for me. Bummer.
And, as I stated many posts ago, Biafine is amazing and I highly recommend it for anyone doing fraxel.
I just read about Biafine. It says you're supposed to cover your skin after applying. Did you do that? Also, how many times a day did you use it, and for how long? I'd like to try it when I go back in the fall for another round. Thanks!
Hi Cubsfan,
Have your break-outs subsided? I really hope that I stop breaking-out after my skin completely heals. Anyway, I don't recall reading that you're supposed to cover the skin after applying Biafine. My derm. never mentioned this either. I've been using it since my third fraxel, and I've never had any problems. It only makes my skin look better. I wear a moisturizing sunblock over the Biafine, and I use it for about a week after each fraxel, applying it two times a day. You should *definitely* get some for your next series of treatments. It makes an incredible difference in eliminating peeling and flaking, and making the skin heal more quickly overall.
Do you have any demarcation lines? I'm very fair skinned, and I have a demarcation line, mostly around my mouth where the derm. has had a more difficult time fraxeling. I really hope this goes away after I've given my skin time to heal.
Bleh. I can't wait til I'm done with fraxel. I'm sick of it.
My break outs have subsided because I'm still taking Doxycycline. I don't know how I'll ever get off of it. I had a demarcation line about 1/2 inch under my lip all the way across. It took a couple of months to go away, but it's completely gone now. I'm not looking forward to doing this again, either. The down time is such a drag. I swear, after this, I'm going to forget about my scars forever! Nice talking to you.
billyboy,
scarred pores are weird since pores are actually "holes" in the face. like coolbreeze said they actually go deeper than they look. sanding might make it worse. a complaint after dermabrasion is usually orange peel skin.
did the fraxel at least help some of them?
JJ: I've reported several benefits from my fraxel experiences so I am happy overall. To date, however, I am disappointed with results on scarred pores and deeper scars. I am reserving judgement as (i) i understand that the healing occurs over time from below and (ii) I really can't see the scars on jawline right now becasue of crust that I have elected to leave on for one more day before washing/shaving closely. However, I would save that I have only a 15% maybe 20% improvement in the scarred pores I have following as a benchmark, as they are easy to see.
This seems strange because I think a particularly nice benefit is that my pores on and around nose have gotten smaller.
I will be able to answer much better when I post pre and post photos in about 6 weeks.
Billyboy : As you say, it's difficult to conclude right now. You would experience that in next 4-6 weeks, skin changes everyday as it heals. Also, this is my analysis : for Fraxel, smaller the scar is, less likely that it will be "covered" ( due to grid ). Wider scars are more likely to be covered fully. Does this make sense ?
I know, that sounds ironic. Also, pores have sharper edges than shallow scars.
In my case, all my shallow/wider scars are gone but pores are still there, though shrunken in diameter.
Hope, you get more results as your skin heals.
Coolbreeze: Congrats on your success. My biggest regret is going to NO for floats, before I learned of your success with dermal grafts by your Bay Area doc. That said, my skin looks way better than when I started the year.
I washed and shaved on both Wed and Thur (and applied lotion, sunscreen, etc, which caused much of the crust to flake off) and then this AM it occurred to me that it might be better to leave it alone as I bet it heals better with the thin crust in tact. I lost the crust in center face, but still have some on cheeks, jaws, etc.
Did you ever go high enough to get crusting? If so, were you advised to leave it in place as long as possible (e.g, as recomended for a scab)? Anyone?
I washed and shaved on both Wed and Thur (and applied lotion, sunscreen, etc, which caused much of the crust to flake off) and then this AM it occurred to me that it might be better to leave it alone as I bet it heals better with the thin crust in tact. I lost the crust in center face, but still have some on cheeks, jaws, etc.
Did you ever go high enough to get crusting? If so, were you advised to leave it in place as long as possible (e.g, as recomended for a scab)? Anyone?
Not sure if this helps (taken from http://www.shorelaser.com/FractionalAblativeLaser.html
"Some patients will experience mild to moderate swelling for a few days after treatment, and in rare cases, "streaking" or mild blistering of the skin may occur. This is somewhat more common at higher treatment densities (over 2000 MTZ/cm2), especially around the chin and temple. Petrolatum should be applied to any small blistered areas untill healing takes place, usually within a week."
and further down, it says:
" Mild blistering, especially on the chin and temples may occur at higher powers and densities, and these have healed nicely."
My thoughts on fraxel a some constructive criticism
1.Fraxel results probably are temporary a I think we will find out one would have to maintain results over time. Even if sunscreen is used, sun spots/photo damage skin will come back as well as wrinkles. Collagen is continuously remolding so scar treatment is more than likely temporary -TBD. Cost will probably adjust significantly from these findings. So once you think you are done with fraxel you are probably not done. I think once you complete for example 5 treatments your after picture will still be better than your before picture although the results will plateu and more than likely decline.
2.Fraxel will more than likely damage the vellus hair follicle especially at high settings. To what extent no one knows yet. I have come to this conclusion from my research and discussing this topic with several doctors I respect and believe. The vellus follicle is 1mm in length and is important for skin remolding.
3.Fraxel will most likely not damage the regular human follicle which is good news for men.
4.Fraxel can and does make scared pores worse. Sometimes it makes them better.
5.Fraxel can cause hypertrophic scars at very high settings as well as indents some times. Much of this depends on the experience of the laser operator and number of redundant passes especially in small areas.
6.Some people have had great results with the treatment others have not had any improvement.
7.Fraxel by itself is probably not the only modality for better results. Fraxel combined with subcision(both needle and saline injection) with a dermal filler would probably give the patient better results.
I am not trying to be a total downer on fraxel as I am still considering it to help with photo damaged skin and some shallow scarring. All I want to do especially for myself is to put some sort of sanity check on this relatively new laser. I do think the expense of the laser is much too costly right now.
It would be good to hear additional constructive/objective feedback pertaining to this laser. The good things and the not so good things. Some of you have published clinical trial data which is great!
Thanks for your input and experience. I did search for the follicle research item, but did not find it. I'll search again using your sn as a keyword.
The follicle question came about because I was researching different lasers and how they impact the hair follicle. Some experts agree with one another that lasers damage the hair follicles that produce the stem cells for needed for skin renewal. This would be bad if laser patients want to get incremental more improvement after the laser procedure with other procedures via c or copper, etc. They don't classify which lasers would cause damage so an assumption Fraxel doesn't, but I don't know.
I had the bulk heating happen on my nose with a diode laser. it left me hypopigmented. the tech turned the machine all the way up since it was less sensitive there. and foolishly overlapped.
I asked the hair follicle question months ago. It doesn't seem to affect them. Seems it would from the MTZ's cross-section on the reliant site. But the dermal papilla from which the hair generates is too deep and unless the capillaries that feed it become compromised it can usually regenerate.
This is interesting, what exactly do you mean by your research? Could you please elaborate. Also what sort of damage to the vellus folicle? If this were true then presumably Fraxel could not be used by young males <30 since it would damage the delvelopment of facial hair, I havent heard any such counterindications.
I found a site with better pictures than fraxel.com. It's a university site so i think it's reliable:
I found a site with better pictures than fraxel.com. It's a university site so i think it's reliable:
http://www.bcm.edu/dermatology/?PMID=2331
Very nice picture JamesJoyce.
I'm just wondering about that first patient...although it seems that in the second picture she appears to be wearing make up and tilted her face a little bit...am I the only one seeing this? Her scars does look improved, but perhaps it's closer to 20-30%?
I have very similar scars on my temples...left one is MUCH worse than hers...I don't know if I should probably soften all of them with TCA 50% Cross first before I do the fraxel.
I did have about a couple thousand a couple weeks ago, before I decided to go with 42" Plasma TV rather than two treatments of Fraxel...hey..I'm still a guy and every guy got his own priorities
Use the HDTV on the plasma to see all the scars and pores of "flawless" celebrities and you might not even feel the need for fraxel anymore!
The girl is wearing some eye shadow. they always do that to make it look better than it is. just try to ignore it.
the axis is different however the angle is almost dead on which is much better than most of the junk on the fraxel site. these pics are by far the best quality before and afters i've seen in six months of searching . . .
You can save these photos, open them in photoshop, and blow them up 200 percent before they become pixelated. They really do show dramatic improvement.