Thank you so much for posting this, I found it very helpful.

I also just read your posts here: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/320777-spiro-not-working-2nd-time-around/ and it really made me think -- I never considered that the reason of Spiro was giving me so many side effects is that it was raising estrogen as well as lowering angrogens. It might be why I have not been able to stand any hormonal birth control I've tried either.

I'm still confused about what exact approach I should take, but this is all very valuable information. Thanks again.

This is AWESOME! I'm going to print it and send it to my Natropath. She has been wanting me to start Progesterone Cream for like 6 months. I took Bio Identical Progesterone PILLS not cream for a few months and I swear it made me break out with small pustules. I was on the Spiro at the time and my skin was super clear so tiny breakouts I was getting made me so mad.

My new Dr says the cream she uses is the best and she hasn't had that compaint. I have DIM in my cubbard so I'm just going to start it again today.

I'm calling my Dr at 9am sharp and requesting the Cream! THX so much for this post. I know it takes time for hormones to resolve but I will be sure to post an update with any good or bad side effects I get from the cream.

and iheartpaul.... can I ask what type of side effects did you get from the Spiro??? Becuase it's so rare to find people with bad side effects from it. I can't tolerate it either.

I always breakout badly from soy and flax and I suspected it was the high content of phytoestrogen in each of them. But you are suggesting to eat more phytoestrogen from food sources right? Do you think you could elaborate on this at all? Could it be some other factor in the soy & flax like omega 6 that is causing my acne?

Thanks.

I would recommend Progestelle. It is bioidentical progesterone suspended in coconut oil. That's it. I believe with progesterone creams you need to avoid having a lot of ingredients, the simpler the better. I would start with VERY SMALL dosages and wait and see what happens. Too high progesterone or supplementing too much too fast can cause problems too.

Oh, and most progesterone pills or prescription progesterone cream is actually Premarin, which is synthetic PROGESTIN, not progesterone. Your body does not treat it the same way. Acne patients especially need bioidentical progesterone, not Premarin.

Why do doctors prescribe Premarin then? A lot of reasons. One reason is drug companies can't make money off a product they can't patent, so they made synthetic Premarin. Bioidentical progesterone has been in use for years and can be bought OTC.

Thank you so much for posting this, I found it very helpful.

 

I also just read your posts here: http://www.acne.org/...nd-time-around/ and it really made me think -- I never considered that the reason of Spiro was giving me so many side effects is that it was raising estrogen as well as lowering angrogens. It might be why I have not been able to stand any hormonal birth control I've tried either.

 

I'm still confused about what exact approach I should take, but this is all very valuable information. Thanks again.

 

I always breakout badly from soy and flax and I suspected it was the high content of phytoestrogen in each of them. But you are suggesting to eat more phytoestrogen from food sources right? Do you think you could elaborate on this at all? Could it be some other factor in the soy & flax like omega 6 that is causing my acne?

Thanks.

 

"Good" estrogen is good for you and has a protective effect on the body, however, if your bad estrogen is really high then adding more good estrogen may not help you. Progesterone + DIM to downregulate the bad estrogen is probably the first step before you try to consume more good estrogens.

@crab76: I started in 2010. On 100mg I was completely clear but had a lot of side effects: 15-20lbs weight gain, hair thinning, spotting, fatigue, bad pms, ovarian pain/cyst. On 50mg I was not staying very clear and breaking out bad on PMS but the other side effects went away. I'm on 75mg right now and am grateful for it helping, but I am just tired of acne and occasionally even still getting cystic acne. I would also like to regulate my cycle and feel better hormonally.

You could try just using a natural progesterone cream for a couple of months + DIM and see if things resolve that way.

 

Progesterone supplementation IS confusing. I would start out with the lowest dose possible and see how things go over your next menstrual. Pay particular attention to your energy levels. Here is a site that may help.

 

I recommend Progestelle for the cream. You can buy directly from their site or from Amazon.com. I believe DIM is available on Amazon as well.

 

If you would like a more user-friendly way to use progesterone, another cream I recommend is Beeyoutiful Balance. It comes with instructions:

Using Beeyoutiful Balance bio-identical progesterone cream

 

Application: When you first start using Beeyoutiful Balance bio-identical progesterone cream, it is a good idea to measure the amount you intend to use with a measuring spoon. This will help you to get a feel for how much you should be applying. Because progesterone only lasts in the body for six to eight hours, it's important to divide your dose into two applications: 1/8 teaspoon in the morning, and 1/8 teaspoon just before bed. Massage the cream into the soft-skinned areas of your body like the inner arms, chest, throat, abdomen, inner thighs, and face. Always apply after bathing, not before, and don't apply on top of other creams or fragrances. Alternate area of application: Progesterone absorbs rapidly through the skin, into the fat, and then into the bloodstream.

Alternating application sites is suggested for maximum results, as progesterone can "saturate" the fat in one area, lessening its benefits.

 

Concentration Based on Dr. John Lee's recommendation that progesterone cream contain 900-1000 mg, Beeyoutiful Balance bio-identical progesterone cream contains approximately 1000 mg of USP progesterone per 2 oz container. It is stronger than many creams on the market, so you might find that you don't need as much as you did using another cream. Use common sense and follow Dr. Lee's guidelines. Every woman must adjust the dose to meet her own personal needs. If you do the math, a 2 oz container should last 1-2 months, depending of individual usage.

Remember, if you don't use it consistently, you won't have relief of symptoms! On the other side of the coin, MORE IS NOT BETTER! Keep in mind that it can take up to three months for your body to reach normal physiologic levels of progesterone. The body normally produces between 15-30 mg of progesterone per day, so gauge your use in light of this.

1/4 tsp. contains approximately 20 mg progesterone

1/8 tsp. contains approximately 10 mg progesterone

 

Suggested use for Premenopausal women: According to Dr. Lee, most premenopausal women need only 15-20 mg of progesterone a day, which is about what the body would make if it was producing its own progesterone. Some women do better with 30 mg, and others are fine with about 10 mg. The object is to use the lowest possible dose and still have relief of symptoms. For severe PMS or premenopause symptoms, start using the cream on approximately day 12, counting the first day of your last menstrual period as day 1; and continue to use it until day 26 or 27. The decrease in progesterone levels will trigger menstruation within a day or two. For minor symptoms, use the cream fewer days. For cramping, apply cream directly to the abdomen three to four times in a day as needed.

 

Suggested use for Menopausal women: Menopausal women can use progesterone cream for approximately three weeks out of every month. The monthly 4-7 day break is important for the body to continue to absorb and gain the maximum benefits, so make a calendar and post it in your bathroom, marking the days of use and abstaining. The object is to fall in line with the body's natural rhythm as closely as possible.

 

Side-effects of Natural Progesterone: Natural Progesterone very rarely has side effects, unlike its synthetic version. According to Dr. John R. Lee, almost all side effects are caused by gross overdose or mixing other hormones such as estrogen and testosterone. Some women report that they experience estrogen dominance symptoms for up to two weeks after starting to use Natural Progesterone Cream, caused by a sensitization of estrogen receptors. Breast tenderness is common, but temporary. If too intense, lower your dose a little until your body adjusts. If a menstruating woman takes natural progesterone out of phase with her cycle, it could change the timing of her period or cause some spotting. All in all, it is extremely rare for a woman to experience genuine side-effects from properly using Natural Progesterone.

 

Educate yourself on the subject of hormone balance. It is highly recommended that you read one of Dr. Lee's books, or one of the other informative books available on the subject. They will give much more specific details to help you fine-tune your use of natural progesterone cream, bringing the best possible results for YOUR body.

 

Thank you so so much for posting this! It's extremely helpful and I've been looking for something just like this.

I'm glad this is helpful.

Personally I plan to start using a miniature dose of the Progestelle next week. Spiro has cleared my skin 100% without any real side-effects, so I could be playing with fire here...but logically I might have a minor low progesterone problem because a) I have some of the more minor symptoms of low progesterone and b) I have several female relatives with low progesterone.

When I get the Progestelle booklet I'll post any usage guides from it on here.

Do you know if there are any issues with using natural progesterone cream and spiro at the same time? I just ask because spiro is affecting hormone levels already...

Also, like spiro is the cream something that would be used long term (indefinitely)? Or when needed?

Do you know if there are any issues with using natural progesterone cream and spiro at the same time? I just ask because spiro is affecting hormone levels already...

Also, like spiro is the cream something that would be used long term (indefinitely)? Or when needed?

 

Both are intended to be used long-term. They only help you for as long as you take them.

You can take them at the same time it just requires additional monitoring. You may have to lower the dosage of the spiro if the progesterone does what it's supposed to and downregulates the DHT as well.

I'll give you my anecdotal experience once I start taking the Progesterelle along with the spiro. But that may be a couple months coming, I plan to start on a miniscule dose and slowly work up.

Good to know. I think I'm going to start using a very low dose of cream as well to see if it helps. For some reason I get a better feeling from this than the other supplements.

I went to the dermatologist this morning and told them about my issues with the full dose of spiro but that the partial dose isn't keeping me clear. They didn't say anything other than like "oh okay, that's not good. hang in there." I have a feeling they just want me to go back on 100mg if that's what worked, regardless of side effects. Back when I was waiting for spiro to work initially, they said if it doesn't work then they would put me on accutane again, which I absolutely refuse to do.

Very frustrating... I am so done with doctors.

Hi Green gables,

Im sorry im really confused. I thought high progesterone leads to high androgens? Not the other way around? My dr said that I have a slight elevation in my androgens and prescribed me ortho cept yet Im very hesitant in taking it cuz of the side effects esp the initial breakout. If you have any input, let me know please. Also, when I drink soymilk or eat a lot of soy, I also break out really bad. Im assuming its b/c of the estrogen (phyto). Does that mean I'll probably break out from the birth control cuz of the higher levels of estrogen?

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond and answer many of our questions n comments.

Hi Green gables,

Im sorry im really confused. I thought high progesterone leads to high androgens? Not the other way around? My dr said that I have a slight elevation in my androgens and prescribed me ortho cept yet Im very hesitant in taking it cuz of the side effects esp the initial breakout. If you have any input, let me know please. Also, when I drink soymilk or eat a lot of soy, I also break out really bad. Im assuming its b/c of the estrogen (phyto). Does that mean I'll probably break out from the birth control cuz of the higher levels of estrogen?

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond and answer many of our questions n comments.

 

Several things can lead to high androgens:

PCOS

Insulin Resistance

Chronic stress

Excessive activities that simulate DHT such as body building

LOW progesterone

The primary and most well-known androgen is testosterone, othert androgens are dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and androstenedione.

Progesterone and testosterone are completely different hormones.

As explained in the first post, progesterone is a regulatory hormone. Progesterone regulates estrogen and androgens. When progesterone gets low, it cannot perform its regulating function. Both estrogen and testosterone can get too high if you have low progesterone.

High progesterone can happen but it is fairly rare compared to low progesterone.

As for as whether or not Orthocept will work for you personally is hard to say. I am not a doctor and won't pretend to be one. But the way Orthocept helps acne is by synthetically increasing estrogen. Presumably in someone with NORMAL progesterone and HIGH androgens due to another reason, such as insulin resistance or chronic stress, Orthocept will provide enough estrogen to overpower the androgens. However, if you have LOW progesterone, then in the long run almost any hormonal birth control pill will simply make matters worse because hormonal birth controls ultimately screw up your body with synthetic estrogen and progestin.

Now soy is a "good" or phytoestrogen. It will help prevent xenoestrogens ("bad" estrogen) from binding to your receptors. However, if your progesterone is low, then the good estrogen becomes not so good because with low progesterone your body is UNABLE to REGULATE its own estrogen level. So any type of estrogen you add is just overloading your body until you fix the low progesterone problem.

So, based on the fact that soy gives you breakouts, I would say that you should look into using natural progesterone for a few months before you try Orthocept.

New post discussing symptoms and different hormonal imbalances.

I've been saying this for awhile so I'm glad I finally have an article to cite.

I'm so sick of hearing people saying that they have acne because their estrogen is high -- estrogen does NOT cause acne. Period. Estrogen actually helps acne. It's the low progesterone that causes issues and I suspected it was because it helped process androgens, because when some people supplement with it or vitex, they get clear. That told me that it was affecting androgens.

I also suspected that xenoestrogens are a different estrogen in the body-- maybe the 4th estrogen, because they don't even know a lot about xenoestrogens yet and there may not be a test developed to measure it.

I also suspected spiro raised estrogen, and of course it makes sense, because it lowers androgens. Also having periods every few weeks points to this as well.

I hope more people read this so they can find a way to lessen their acne and realize that progesterone is not the enemy. That said, i'm wary of messing with progesterone without monitoring because that can be a pandoras box. For me, I'm not doing that just yet, but will reevaluate later.

Thanks for the article.

Here is a great quote from Dr. Lee.

If Natural Progesterone Is So Wonderful, Why Isn't It Used By My Doctor ?

This is the question most frequently asked of Dr. Lee during his more than 30 years of active clinical practice. To quote from Dr. Lee:

"The medical-industrial complex refers to the close knit association of organized medicine with the pharmaceutical manufacturers and governmental medical regulatory agencies... The system taken together is neither necessarily corrupt nor evil, but, like any human agency, is subject to the frailties and faults of humankind. Medical research is dependent on the billions of dollars of grants from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the private pharmaceutical industry. The two are closely interlocked.

Any given pharmaceutical company, like any private enterprise, must make a profit to stay alive. Profit comes from the sales of patent medicines. The system is not interested in natural (non-patentable) medicines, regardless of their potential health benefits. Thus the flow of research funding does not extend to products which cannot be patented.

Few people know that the definition of malpractice hinges on whether or not the practice is common among one's medical peers and has little (usually nothing) to do with whether the practice is beneficial or not. A doctor willing to study, to learn the ins and outs of an alternative medical therapy, and to put what he has learned into practice in helping patients is potentially exposing himself to serious charges of malpractice.

But what does all this have to do with natural progesterone? The answer is quite simple, really. Ample medical research regarding progesterone was carried on from the 1940's through the 1960's, and amply reported in mainline, recognized medical literature. Since the early 1970's, however, medical research has become much more expensive and the grants subsidizing progesterone research, (or any unpatentable medicine or treatment technique), have dried up and been blown away by the contemporary trade winds of synthetic drugs, particularly the progestins. The potential market for patentable progestins is vast-- contraceptive pills, irregular menses, osteoporosis--literally every woman through the age of puberty on is a target for a sale. Do you think the prevailing powers wish to see this lucrative market left to an over-the-counter natural product not in the hands of physician prescribers and not controlled by the pharmaceutical industry?

Thus, when he (the physician) hears of the use of natural progesterone, he wonders why none of his associates know about it. If it is not commonly know, 'it must in some way be false and/or unapproved.' Having given lectures on the role and medical uses of natural progesterone, I have observed numerous instances wherein perfectly fine physicians will inquire about obtaining product for use by their wives or mother-in-law but not for their patients. What can account for such behavior by professionals? I suspect that it is fear of alienation from the flock that is paramount in their minds. If progestins were the equivalent of natural progesterone in effect and safety, the argument would be moot. But progestins are not the equivalent of natural progesterone and never will be."

Dr. John R. Lee, CA, USA

Wow, very interesting! I started looking around the net as this has interested me. I found that progesterone starts declining in the 30s..well I am 34! lol I have some of the symtpoms as well as others I found online. I'm hoping to get insurance soon so I can go get a full test. In the meantime, let me ask your thoughts.

Early this year I started noticing some differences. First, I break out during the 2 weeks before my period. It used to be only up to a week before, but normally just a few days and the days during. But, I found it weird that they start popping up a full 2 weeks before my period now and during and the two weeks after they clear and I am fine. Most everything I read online suggested the week before. I couldn't find out why I would break out midcycle. Well..so am I thinking right here that it could be the progesterone? If I am low couldn't that mean a timeframe of two weeks before? If progetsreone should be dominant in the last half of the cycle while estrogen is dominant in the first half, that would would mean progesterone should be rising/higher in the second half (or last two weeks). So, if I am already low, then it couldn't keep up and wouldn't be balanced right. Am I thinking correctly on this?

I also noticed a bit heavier flow, too. Normally it is pretty light/medium but it has increased enough that I have noticed. Not scary increase that alarms me, but enough to get my attention. I've always had super consistent timing, too. I always start on the exact same day every month. The only time it deviates is if i under a lot fo stress right before..then it will shift and be late a few days. Once I had a ton of stress that set me back a week. But I can always contribute the lateness to stress as I haven't been late when i don't have stressful situations. I told a doc once that I was very reliable and she told me that it was not normal to be so regular like that. (No clue how true that is lol but I was happy being able to rely on it).

I've been tired and just a general feeling of being overwhelmed. I know I don't really have all that much going on but I can't feel like I'll never get done. If too many things pile up I feel drowned. I recall a time when little bothered me and not much stressed me out. I went through some tragic times with family deaths, marriage, moving, getting pregnant--all within months--and I did not feel like I do now when we have say, 2 car repairs come up. lol It's crazy the way I get stressed out compared to what I used to handle. I've always just chalked it up to getting older and having more daily stressors (like a family, household chores and day to day "life"). Maybe it is something else?

Anyways, good information to think about. I may have to try this cream you guys posted above. I really can't wait to go get a work up and see what I am dealing with. May be an easier fix afterall, rather than just old age!

Acne mid-month could be high testosterone bc testosterone peaks mid month too. Most everything you read about women's cycles leaves that out for some reason. I only found out when my endo told me. I also never broke out mid month until I was in my 30s and think low progesterone could be a reason-- but -- estrogen declines at this age as well. If there's not enough estrogen to balance out the testosterone, then you can get acne. This is the reason that spiro works, bc it blocks the androgens.

You're right that progesterone should be rising mid month, but androgens do too,and you may not have enough estrogen to make it less of a problem. A somewhat reliable indicator of not enough progesterone is a short luteal phase.

I had all normal labs, even progesterone and androgens...

If its true that progesterone affects androgens, then being a little low can make them take over. I still don't think this has to do with estrogen levels, but androgen levels. Estrogen doesn't cause acne, it helps it, IMO. Supplementing with progesterone is dicey, bc it's so easy to go too high and that's also bad, and an cause major acne as well.

It's all very confusing and annoying that in this day and age they don't have better understanding of women's hormones.

Acne mid-month could be high testosterone bc testosterone peaks mid month too. Most everything you read about women's cycles leaves that out for some reason. I only found out when my endo told me. I also never broke out mid month until I was in my 30s and think low progesterone could be a reason-- but -- estrogen declines at this age as well. If there's not enough estrogen to balance out the testosterone, then you can get acne. This is the reason that spiro works, bc it blocks the androgens.

You're right that progesterone should be rising mid month, but androgens do too,and you may not have enough estrogen to make it less of a problem. A somewhat reliable indicator of not enough progesterone is a short luteal phase.

I had all normal labs, even progesterone and androgens...

If its true that progesterone affects androgens, then being a little low can make them take over. I still don't think this has to do with estrogen levels, but androgen levels. Estrogen doesn't cause acne, it helps it, IMO. Supplementing with progesterone is dicey, bc it's so easy to go too high and that's also bad, and an cause major acne as well.

It's all very confusing and annoying that in this day and age they don't have better understanding of women's hormones.

 

If you have excess estrogen it has a "competing" factor with progesterone. Your progesterone is so busy regulating your excess estrogen that it can't regulate your androgens as well. The science is a little fuzzy but it appears that progesterone will downregulate estrogen before androgens. Many people have more estrogen exposure in this day and age because of xenoestrogensin synthetic products. (Remember when sunscreens started saying BPA-free? BPA is a xenoestrogen that was found to cause endocrine problems because the body treats it as a foreign estrogen. Xenoestrogens occur in plastics, fabric softener, tons of things.)

So if we're going to be technical, your progesterone may not actually be LOW but unable to deal with xenoestrogen exposure. Your actual estrogen may not actually be HIGH, but the xenoestrogen mimic estrogen effects in your body, your progesterone thinks it's real estrogen it has to deal with, and then your androgens may not actually be HIGH but just binding to receptors too often because progesterone isn't doing its job. So you may have "normal" labs and still have hormonal symptoms.

As I said, a lot of this research is still in a fuzzy stage, but it makes sense with the evidence we've seen so far. I should make another post on xenoestrogens, but with the amount of PMs I get on these topics, I feel like I confuse people often enough as it is...

Testosterone is higher mid-month, but acne takes a week or so to form under the skin, so you wouldn't necessarily see acne coming up the same week when your testosterone shoots up.

I agree that progesterone supplementation is an art and not a science. Part of the problem is that synthetic progesterone < natural progesterone, but doctors are afraid to use natural progesterone (see Dr. Lee's quote I posted earlier), so we simply don't have a lot of practicing doctors figuring out this stuff.

Also many women forget that progesterone is stored in fat cells, which is why it is more effective to apply a cream and get the progesterone transdermally than to swallow a pill. You can max out the progesterone level in a certain area of fat, so you have to switch where you apply it periodically.

Acne mid-month could be high testosterone bc testosterone peaks mid month too. Most everything you read about women's cycles leaves that out for some reason. I only found out when my endo told me. I also never broke out mid month until I was in my 30s and think low progesterone could be a reason-- but -- estrogen declines at this age as well. If there's not enough estrogen to balance out the testosterone, then you can get acne. This is the reason that spiro works, bc it blocks the androgens.

You're right that progesterone should be rising mid month, but androgens do too,and you may not have enough estrogen to make it less of a problem. A somewhat reliable indicator of not enough progesterone is a short luteal phase.

I had all normal labs, even progesterone and androgens...

If its true that progesterone affects androgens, then being a little low can make them take over. I still don't think this has to do with estrogen levels, but androgen levels. Estrogen doesn't cause acne, it helps it, IMO. Supplementing with progesterone is dicey, bc it's so easy to go too high and that's also bad, and an cause major acne as well.

It's all very confusing and annoying that in this day and age they don't have better understanding of women's hormones.

 

Hmm I wonder why. I don't recall seeing it mentioned on what i had looked at. I know we have some, but wasn't sure how it all inter related. I know that my cycle starts on the same day so during the 2 weeks leading up to it, I try to eat super healthy and apply my BP because those 14 days are open to eruptions. It wouldn't be quite as bad if I would just get the tiny little "normal" spots. The typical acne with small red bumps and a white top. I have excellent success with BP on those when they crop up from irritation. But, my usual spot is a knot, even if it is a bit smaller than the large cysts I had a long while ago. They still last at least a week. lol

If you have excess estrogen it has a "competing" factor with progesterone. Your progesterone is so busy regulating your excess estrogen that it can't regulate your androgens as well. The science is a little fuzzy but it appears that progesterone will downregulate estrogen before androgens. Many people have more estrogen exposure in this day and age because of xenoestrogensin synthetic products. (Remember when sunscreens started saying BPA-free? BPA is a xenoestrogen that was found to cause endocrine problems because the body treats it as a foreign estrogen. Xenoestrogens occur in plastics, fabric softener, tons of things.)

So if we're going to be technical, your progesterone may not actually be LOW but unable to deal with xenoestrogen exposure. Your actual estrogen may not actually be HIGH, but the xenoestrogen mimic estrogen effects in your body, your progesterone thinks it's real estrogen it has to deal with, and then your androgens may not actually be HIGH but just binding to receptors too often because progesterone isn't doing its job. So you may have "normal" labs and still have hormonal symptoms.

 

We have started trying to remove as many BPAs and the like out of our house. So crazy we have so many pollutants in our food chain and in our products! No wonder we have so much sickness.

>>>>>So if we're going to be technical, your progesterone may not actually be LOW but unable to deal with xenoestrogen exposure. Your actual estrogen may not actually be HIGH, but the xenoestrogen mimic estrogen effects in your body, your progesterone thinks it's real estrogen it has to deal with, and then your androgens may not actually be HIGH but just binding to receptors too often because progesterone isn't doing its job. So you may have "normal" labs and still have hormonal symptoms.<<<<

I actually told someone this on here a few months ago and they got mad at me ( the estrogen/progesterone part & xenoesteogens).

The people who had problems were supplementing with NP, but had major side effects, so I never did it bc of that. It can get high as well and people need to be monitored if they use the NP too.

My naturopath used vitex. I started it and used it for a month and it did help, but I had already decided prior to using it that I was going back on tane. If I wasn't so clear skinned now, I'd give the vitex another go for the long haul to see what happened. My naturopath doesn't use NP bc of the way it can backfire. Since I'm clear, I don't want to play with my hormones, even though I'm bloating my last week, I'm not breaking out except for a very small non inflamed area and I'm not even using my Bp 2x a day for about a week now. I really should be, but I'm not. The only thing I changed is that I'm taking zinc which maybe raises progesterone or lowers xenoesteogens or something because that's the only thing I've changed recenly.

 

Acne mid-month could be high testosterone bc testosterone peaks mid month too. Most everything you read about women's cycles leaves that out for some reason. I only found out when my endo told me. I also never broke out mid month until I was in my 30s and think low progesterone could be a reason-- but -- estrogen declines at this age as well. If there's not enough estrogen to balance out the testosterone, then you can get acne. This is the reason that spiro works, bc it blocks the androgens.

 

 

You're right that progesterone should be rising mid month, but androgens do too,and you may not have enough estrogen to make it less of a problem. A somewhat reliable indicator of not enough progesterone is a short luteal phase.

 

I had all normal labs, even progesterone and androgens...

 

If its true that progesterone affects androgens, then being a little low can make them take over. I still don't think this has to do with estrogen levels, but androgen levels. Estrogen doesn't cause acne, it helps it, IMO. Supplementing with progesterone is dicey, bc it's so easy to go too high and that's also bad, and an cause major acne as well.

 

It's all very confusing and annoying that in this day and age they don't have better understanding of women's hormones.

 

Hmm I wonder why. I don't recall seeing it mentioned on what i had looked at. I know we have some, but wasn't sure how it all inter related. I know that my cycle starts on the same day so during the 2 weeks leading up to it, I try to eat super healthy and apply my BP because those 14 days are open to eruptions. It wouldn't be quite as bad if I would just get the tiny little "normal" spots. The typical acne with small red bumps and a white top. I have excellent success with BP on those when they crop up from irritation. But, my usual spot is a knot, even if it is a bit smaller than the large cysts I had a long while ago. They still last at least a week. lol

 

If you have excess estrogen it has a "competing" factor with progesterone. Your progesterone is so busy regulating your excess estrogen that it can't regulate your androgens as well. The science is a little fuzzy but it appears that progesterone will downregulate estrogen before androgens. Many people have more estrogen exposure in this day and age because of xenoestrogensin synthetic products. (Remember when sunscreens started saying BPA-free? BPA is a xenoestrogen that was found to cause endocrine problems because the body treats it as a foreign estrogen. Xenoestrogens occur in plastics, fabric softener, tons of things.)

 

So if we're going to be technical, your progesterone may not actually be LOW but unable to deal with xenoestrogen exposure. Your actual estrogen may not actually be HIGH, but the xenoestrogen mimic estrogen effects in your body, your progesterone thinks it's real estrogen it has to deal with, and then your androgens may not actually be HIGH but just binding to receptors too often because progesterone isn't doing its job. So you may have "normal" labs and still have hormonal symptoms.

 

I was wondering why women's cycle information doesn't really mention testosterone. Sorry, I wasn't clear.

I don't know! It's such a huge omission! For so many years I couldn't understand what was going on with my body. Can't understand why they left it out. Smh.